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Author Topic: Triggers and Crosses, the wonderful and horrible universe of the Chrono series.  (Read 8624 times)
Uru
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« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2010, 10:37:04 AM »

I enjoyed CC's plot much more than CT, something about "your dead here, but, this is how life WOULD have been" gets me every time. Also, I felt that CC had way better music from Mitsuda than CT.

I loved using Pip (Devil version). My last play through I made it a point to use all the other characters instead of sticking with Glenn and Fargo or Glenn and Pip, and found that they DO play differently. Their element charts get crazy for some of the weird characters.
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PotRoast
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« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2010, 11:57:50 AM »

Two crazy ideas.

1. Chrono Trigger's plot didn't really make much more sense than CC's if you actually think about it.

No. No. No.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2010, 09:57:11 PM »

CT was a mess of plotholes and there's no way around it. Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't even use its own plot mechanics consistently. Big notable example of this being the grandfather paradox only happening when it was convenient to the story and nowhere else. It constantly re-explains where the time gates came from. Dreamstone turns into a MacGuffin for Everything even when it doesn't make any sense. In the second half they're constantly tossing in new backstory elements (The entity! The motherfucking ENTITY!) without ever explaining or resolving them or bringing them up again. This is the result of having too many writers involved and these kind of problems are inevitable when you have too many writers on board. The game is a 20-hour exquisite corpse.

Deal with it B[
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Mickeymac92
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« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2010, 10:07:38 PM »

CT was a mess of plotholes and there's no way around it. Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't even use its own plot mechanics consistently. Big notable example of this being the grandfather paradox only happening when it was convenient to the story and nowhere else. It constantly re-explains where the time gates came from. Dreamstone turns into a MacGuffin for Everything even when it doesn't make any sense. In the second half they're constantly tossing in new backstory elements (The entity! The motherfucking ENTITY!) without ever explaining or resolving them or bringing them up again. This is the result of having too many writers involved and these kind of problems are inevitable when you have too many writers on board. The game is a 20-hour exquisite corpse.

Deal with it B[

Maybe it doesn't make sense when you nitpick at it like that, but it makes perfect sense when you're just trying to follow what's going on. I haven't played Chrono Cross, so I can't say how it is by comparison, but from what I've gathered many people seem confused by the plot, let alone the details.
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« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2010, 11:12:54 PM »

CT was a mess of plotholes and there's no way around it. Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't even use its own plot mechanics consistently. Big notable example of this being the grandfather paradox only happening when it was convenient to the story and nowhere else. It constantly re-explains where the time gates came from. Dreamstone turns into a MacGuffin for Everything even when it doesn't make any sense. In the second half they're constantly tossing in new backstory elements (The entity! The motherfucking ENTITY!) without ever explaining or resolving them or bringing them up again. This is the result of having too many writers involved and these kind of problems are inevitable when you have too many writers on board. The game is a 20-hour exquisite corpse.

Deal with it B[

Maybe it doesn't make sense when you nitpick at it like that, but it makes perfect sense when you're just trying to follow what's going on. I haven't played Chrono Cross, so I can't say how it is by comparison, but from what I've gathered many people seem confused by the plot, let alone the details.

That doesn't contradict itself... >_______>
It still supports the point the story is a mess at times, much as Mesh said.

I don't think CC is as much confusing as it is open to some interpretation at some points.  The ending is certainly ambiguous, and some story parts remain fogged up.
It's a great story, adding beautifully to the legacy left behind by three of the first game's more important characters.  More than that, I love what has happened in chrono "history" between the two games (essentially Porre's role).  The "old man" in the game is probably the most interesting of all; but, typical Squeenix style, is left out on a lot of detail and filled in with poor writing.  The two kinda techy-places you visit are some of the most coolest I've seen a video game.
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PotRoast
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« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2010, 11:31:46 PM »

CT was a mess of plotholes and there's no way around it. Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't even use its own plot mechanics consistently. Big notable example of this being the grandfather paradox only happening when it was convenient to the story and nowhere else. It constantly re-explains where the time gates came from. Dreamstone turns into a MacGuffin for Everything even when it doesn't make any sense. In the second half they're constantly tossing in new backstory elements (The entity! The motherfucking ENTITY!) without ever explaining or resolving them or bringing them up again. This is the result of having too many writers involved and these kind of problems are inevitable when you have too many writers on board. The game is a 20-hour exquisite corpse.

Deal with it B[

Thank you for actually making your argument :)

I certainly agree there are some plot holes and if you think hard enough about their usage of time travel you'll find they flubbed it up at times. The reason I think your point is moot is that what these plot holes and missteps have little to no impact on understanding what is actually going on. All of your issues really revolve around CT lore and have little impact of actually understanding what is going on.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2010, 12:51:24 AM »

CC's backstory makes a lot more sense too if you ignore the various "plotguides" you find floating around gamefaqs/rpgshrines because whoever wrote those seems to be completely insane.
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« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2010, 02:13:37 AM »

I feel like in CT they really simplified the story, like the game was aimed at a younger...ish... crowd. (I'm not talking 6 year olds, but I'm not talking the MegaTen crowd of today either.) They simplified what could possibly have been a really complex concept and made plotholes in the process. If they filled up all these plotholes, it would have been a ton longer or at least more wordy. How complex were RPG plots in 1995? Like I said before, CT as it is is really easy for any JRPG n00b to pick up and start playing - all at a time where JRPGs suddenly got more popular. One thing about CT is it never drags. It's very accessible, and I'm not sure it'd have the popularity that it does if it wasn't all these things at the right time.

Alternatively, can you imagine if CT was made this gen or last gen instead? With the ideas in the plot even more fleshed out and it being like 2 discs on the PS2 or something? And with way more fans being jaded when it came to JRPGs?

CC's plot was just.. well, not hard to understand in itself, but the throwing huge chunks of plot near the end suddenly was a bit of a curvbeball. :P
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« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2010, 04:13:48 AM »

kyuu, really? So easy that noob like me can pick up CT? XD
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2010, 08:06:19 AM »

kyuu, really? So easy that noob like me can pick up CT? XD

Yes, you could easily pick up and play Crono Trigger.
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« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2010, 08:16:20 AM »

Hot damn! Perhaps I'll give it a try once I'm done with FFX. XD
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Ashton
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« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2010, 09:29:44 AM »

Just finished replaying Chrono Cross. A few things:

-They really needed to make the parties more than three people. With 40+ characters to use it's a wonder anyone ever used any team other than Serge/Glenn/Kid. It'd have broken the battle mechanics, yeah, but either modify the battle system or have less useless characters. Like Van.Or Sneff. Is there anyone who used the "Hit by an Ugly Tree" Sneff?

-The plot is paced somewhat poorly, and a lot of the time does a poor job telling you what you should be doing next. Large chunks of the game's plot are thrown at you at the tail end of the game, and there's a lot of points where you have to activate the next leg of the story by talking to faceless NPCs, which was annoying as hell. A lot of people say the story is terrible or hard to follow, but it's not. It's just that the multidimension and space-time facets are hard to pin down.
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« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2010, 11:14:33 AM »

Just finished replaying Chrono Cross. A few things:

-They really needed to make the parties more than three people. With 40+ characters to use it's a wonder anyone ever used any team other than Serge/Glenn/Kid. It'd have broken the battle mechanics, yeah, but either modify the battle system or have less useless characters. Like Van.Or Sneff. Is there anyone who used the "Hit by an Ugly Tree" Sneff?

-The plot is paced somewhat poorly, and a lot of the time does a poor job telling you what you should be doing next. Large chunks of the game's plot are thrown at you at the tail end of the game, and there's a lot of points where you have to activate the next leg of the story by talking to faceless NPCs, which was annoying as hell. A lot of people say the story is terrible or hard to follow, but it's not. It's just that the multidimension and space-time facets are hard to pin down.

... I think I'm left with a sort of underwhelmed final act however.
Too much story detail is given in mere speech bubbles - scenes that I would have LOVED to see acted out in the (back then) enhanced graphics that the PSX offered over the SNES.  The "burning orphanage" was awesome to see; but all too brief.
MAJOR, HUGE, FANGASMIC details are provided by the three "ghost children" in speech bubbles at the 11th hour.  Showing a cutscene of some of Chrono Triggers post-incidences would have easily gotten me ....er, wet (sorry, gross, and extremely over-emphasized).

Nevertheless - awesome game.

Haha I Posted that on the Game Journal topic a few months back
I agree completely.  The game is a breeze with Glenn and Serge, but that changes come the final battle "order" (I would have NEVER figured out how to use the end-game special-element without a guide).
I know I wrote about the plot pacing issues somewhere (I don't really wanna go hunt for that now too), but for the life of me - I could never tell you why your party decides to do half of the things it sets out to do.  You're just sort of told, like "it'd be a good idea, go do it".

Nevertheless - awesome game.

EDIT: and as far as I'm concerned, no one uses Sneff, his stats are bullshit to even bother.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 11:16:43 AM by Dice » Logged

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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2010, 09:29:11 AM »

Hot damn! Perhaps I'll give it a try once I'm done with FFX. XD

Now, to be completely honest, we're talking about the JRPG genre here.  Outside of SMT games (and even including many of those, given the recent Persona games), pretty much the entire GENRE is very user-friendly and easy to complete.  If we were talking about fighting games or RTS games or anything slightly competetive, you'd have a reason to hunt out the simplest games to start on, but in JRPG land you can pretty much grab anything and go, it's a very simple genre.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2010, 12:45:12 PM »

Hot damn! Perhaps I'll give it a try once I'm done with FFX. XD

Now, to be completely honest, we're talking about the JRPG genre here.  Outside of SMT games (and even including many of those, given the recent Persona games), pretty much the entire GENRE is very user-friendly and easy to complete.  If we were talking about fighting games or RTS games or anything slightly competetive, you'd have a reason to hunt out the simplest games to start on, but in JRPG land you can pretty much grab anything and go, it's a very simple genre.

To the point where playing one means that you've pretty much played them all. There is VERY little variety in the genre thanks to experiencing no evolution in gameplay mechanics at all.
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