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Author Topic: Confused about Shin Megami Tensei games  (Read 3312 times)
Starmongoose
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2010, 03:15:41 PM »

Your lack of adventurousness makes me sad :( < See, sad face.
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2010, 06:15:43 PM »

It's a well known fact that SMT isn't for everyone gameplay or theme-wise.  I'm not surprised the OP said no.

And I can think of only a few things pre-FF7 that were disturbing. Like the burning of Mist village in FF4 or Kefka killing everyone in Doma by poisoning their water supply...or rather pretty much anything Kefka did.  There is a reason I consider him the creepiest villain in the series.
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2010, 06:34:27 PM »

And I can think of only a few things pre-FF7 that were disturbing.

In US released games of course, and you'd have to be ignoring computer RPGs here I think. Factoring both in... I believe some of the older Ultimas had some grizzly scenes, and looking at console RPGs, well, once again Megami Tensei!
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2010, 08:30:16 PM »

And I can think of only a few things pre-FF7 that were disturbing.

In US released games of course, and you'd have to be ignoring computer RPGs here I think. Factoring both in... I believe some of the older Ultimas had some grizzly scenes, and looking at console RPGs, well, once again Megami Tensei!

I think he was referring to the claim that FF itself (not including other RPG series) has been disturbing over the years. Aside from the suicide leap and the ones mentioned in FF6, I mostly disagree.

I'd add Breath of Fire II and Illusion of Gaia (slave trade, Russian "roulette" glass) to the list of slightly disturbing pre-FF7 RPGs. I think I remember Shadowrun having a graphic scene or two, but I can't be for certain.
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Spoony Mage
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2010, 09:10:00 PM »

Oh yeah, I can't believe I forgot the suicide jump in FF6!

But yeah, I was just listing the few things that came to mind when thinking about the SNES era FFs.  Nowhere near as disturbing as what one might find in SMT, though.
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2010, 09:27:48 PM »

I forgot about the suicide jump as well.

And yeah, even with all those and Kefka's insanity, SMT is still more controversial.
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2010, 10:25:56 PM »

FF's dark and gritty is weak compared to SMT's

I think you should try Devil Survivor and see how it fits. If it makes you flinch once or twice, stay away, if not, try one of the other DS ones. I think the console games are gonna be over the line for you though.

Ever played God of War?
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2010, 10:56:25 PM »

I'd also like to know when FF was graphic and disturbing.

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying FF has ever been "OMG hide the children's eyes! It's too controversial!" graphic/disturbing. But as other people mentioned there have been some things done with pixels that, if done with live-action where you see it actually happening in detail, is pretty damn sure to get an R rating by today's standards for "mature content".

FF4- Burning down a village of innocents, assaulting a child, violence against children (since you have child characters in your party and there's that whole "we can't show a child getting hurt because people will baw" thing in mainstream American society right now), child "death", Barbiccia (if I remember correctly she's "supposed" practically topless as part of the original design, but I might be getting my information crossed). I'm sure there are a few other things but it's been forever and a day and honestly it's not worth digging any deeper.

FF5- Can't remember a whole lot from this game as I played it less than FF4 (despite it being my favorite in the series). I do know that Ex-Death at least contributes two points to this. Predominately where he pretty much tortures Galuf into critical mode (which while pretty tame in pixels would probably look downright horrifying in reality) and also his transformation into the End-Boss could be considered some Grade-A nightmare fuel. Also the "child problems" crop up here minus the death element.

FF6- Really all I should have to say is "Kefka". I'm sure I could dig up other things but really this guy takes the cake. Multiple instances of mass murder and attempted mass murder. One particular where you get to watch every soldier on the screen die of poison. And I think there were at least 5 that they show. Imagine that as a movie or a TV program showing 5 people dying from poison. Hell "The Dark Knight" only had one and they did it off screen (probably to avoid a higher rating). Not to mention at one point he practically succeeds in his genocidal desires. Then there's the final boss form of him. Done properly if Ex-Death was Grade-A nightmare fuel then Kefka is granted Grade-S. Also the same "child stuff" as FF5. Also a minor instance of tentacle molestation. >.>


Again, not really saying that it's "more dark or disturbing" that SMT or most modern games/movies; but when you think about it and actually visualize some of the stuff that happened in the games outside of the realm of pixels it can be pretty darn graphic for a typical audience that has no preparation for the content within.
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2010, 12:09:02 AM »

I'd also like to know when FF was graphic and disturbing.

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying FF has ever been "OMG hide the children's eyes! It's too controversial!" graphic/disturbing. But as other people mentioned there have been some things done with pixels that, if done with live-action where you see it actually happening in detail, is pretty damn sure to get an R rating by today's standards for "mature content".

FF4- Burning down a village of innocents, assaulting a child, violence against children (since you have child characters in your party and there's that whole "we can't show a child getting hurt because people will baw" thing in mainstream American society right now), child "death", Barbiccia (if I remember correctly she's "supposed" practically topless as part of the original design, but I might be getting my information crossed). I'm sure there are a few other things but it's been forever and a day and honestly it's not worth digging any deeper.

FF5- Can't remember a whole lot from this game as I played it less than FF4 (despite it being my favorite in the series). I do know that Ex-Death at least contributes two points to this. Predominately where he pretty much tortures Galuf into critical mode (which while pretty tame in pixels would probably look downright horrifying in reality) and also his transformation into the End-Boss could be considered some Grade-A nightmare fuel. Also the "child problems" crop up here minus the death element.

FF6- Really all I should have to say is "Kefka". I'm sure I could dig up other things but really this guy takes the cake. Multiple instances of mass murder and attempted mass murder. One particular where you get to watch every soldier on the screen die of poison. And I think there were at least 5 that they show. Imagine that as a movie or a TV program showing 5 people dying from poison. Hell "The Dark Knight" only had one and they did it off screen (probably to avoid a higher rating). Not to mention at one point he practically succeeds in his genocidal desires. Then there's the final boss form of him. Done properly if Ex-Death was Grade-A nightmare fuel then Kefka is granted Grade-S. Also the same "child stuff" as FF5. Also a minor instance of tentacle molestation. >.>


Again, not really saying that it's "more dark or disturbing" that SMT or most modern games/movies; but when you think about it and actually visualize some of the stuff that happened in the games outside of the realm of pixels it can be pretty darn graphic for a typical audience that has no preparation for the content within.

All this makes me think of the Simpsons showing...pretty much ALL but a penis and woman's parts.  They get away with ass, and all other forms of nudity.  Why?
It's a cartoon.

I think the SNES-era consoles get away better with graphic stuff because...well, the graphics aren't all that impressive to begin with.  Squeenix still unfortunately continues the trend of being pretty clean... aside from Squall's bloodied cut-face and...well, whatever Cavia did.
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kyuusei
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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2010, 12:14:14 AM »

Dice summed up what I was posting before my connection died. The disturbingly effective subject matter was less disturbingly effective when the graphical representation is, well... not so graphic(cally detailed). It doesn't make poisoning a whole city less WRONG, it was just less shocking than had you seen it in greater detail.

Ever played God of War?

Better yet, the third one? Even the not-normally squeamish were, you know, squeamish.
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2010, 01:18:07 AM »

I loved burning that damn village.

I'd do it again
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2010, 01:59:52 AM »

FF7 had a dark part, I think so anyway.

Remember Dyne? His wife was murdered by Shinra and he went to Corel Prison after murdering a bunch of people at the Golden Saucer. He thought his daughter was dead too but it turns out she was adopted by Barret, but Dyne considers his hands too stained with blood to see her again.

He then commits suicide.


EDIT: I always thought Dyne was a lesbian, for a very long time, before I found out he was a guy. Don't ask the details, that's what I thought at the time.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 02:23:06 AM by Starmongoose » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2010, 02:11:38 AM »

FF7 and beyond all had some decently dark/graphic parts depending on where you look.

*might as well wrack the memory for some brief examples*

FF7: In addition to the part you mentioned Star don't forget we got to see the full frontal view of a mutated human woman with an eyeball-breast not that far into the game (JENOVA).

FF8: How about the fact that you're primary power source for the game gives you phenomenal summoning powers in exchange for slowly eating away your memories until eventually there's nothing left; leaving you as a hollow shell that doesn't remember anything. (They never elaborate too much but in theory this means you could potentially forget everything. From what events defined your personality to basic potty training. And these memory deletions seem to happen in random order too.)

FF9: Now even 2 hours into the game...Princess Garnett is implanted with seeds that basically threaten to sprout inside her body and kill her as the "death plant" grows.

FF10: Unintentionally so, but if anyone's watched Spoony's review of FF10 you'll notice the cast makes a lot of disturbing choices that are quite dark when you think about the callous/uncaring nature behind it. "We just saw a village slaughtered by Sin? That's nice. Screw advancing our mission, it's time for Blitzball!" being the primary example. There are so many cases of the party unintentionally acting like villainous d-bags that it makes you wonder. XD

FF10-2: Rikku. XD *light-hearted sarcasm*
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 02:23:23 AM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2010, 02:50:52 AM »

Squeenix still unfortunately continues the trend of being pretty clean... aside from Squall's bloodied cut-face and...well, whatever Cavia did.

Versus XIII has blood and the Backstreet Boys... Agito XIII is promise to be "the evolution of Final Fantasy Tactics" that means a Final Fantasy with adult-themes, or something like that.

Either way, Square Enix always fucks a good idea in 20 different ways. With a condom no less.
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2010, 04:42:56 AM »

Quote
I'd add Breath of Fire II and Illusion of Gaia (slave trade, Russian "roulette" glass) to the list of slightly disturbing pre-FF7 RPGs. I think I remember Shadowrun having a graphic scene or two, but I can't be for certain.

Slightly? My English wasn't exactly good when I played Illusion of Gaia many years ago so a lot zoomed past me, but I could feel the game weighing down on me the whole time. Most of the locations where really depressing.
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