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Author Topic: i may not be the biggest fan of the older final fantasies.....  (Read 2765 times)
Mickeymac92
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« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2010, 04:29:41 PM »

Cloud? Maybe, but people accuse him of it anyway. Zidane? Outside of some points in the story, not likely! But I also think people blow Squall out of proportion there when he's mostly a loner who, as I recall, is easily annoyed by other people, and I think people are outright idiots for saying Cloud's an emo. Advent Children aside, but screw that interpretation.

I blame Advent Children for convincing me to avoid the series for as long as I did.
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« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2010, 07:29:05 PM »

for the record i'm talking about the gba version. also some of the humor that i like is visual stuff wich may not of been in the original version.
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« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2010, 07:46:57 PM »

I'll +1 the school of thought that perhaps the older FF games give that more warm-fuzzy feeling because they didn't take themselves as seriously as perhaps more modern ones like FF12 or 13.  Sure there are/were comic relief moments, but they probably felt canned?  I dunno.  Of course, FF4 and 6 took place in wartime eras and FF5 did not may be why it doesn't have that sense of gravitas and is more high adventure.  There's always a sense of darkness during a wartime era, right?  

When I look at FF9, you have Steiner who evolves from a stodgy knight who takes himself too seriously to a more whole/open-hearted person at the end.  It's his baby steps in learning to accept Zidane as a golden-hearted person in his own particular idiom that presented a strenuous theme in a way that didn't feel pretentious or self-important.  

Then it opens up the overall topic of RPG storylines that perhaps try too hard to be profound, try too hard to be mindscrews, or have this knack of making the obvious appear profound.  While I do appreciate the presence of some kind of theme to lend gravity, sometimes a simple adventure story devoid of pretension is what the doctor ordered.  
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2010, 04:13:14 PM »

Then it opens up the overall topic of RPG storylines that perhaps try too hard to be profound, try too hard to be mindscrews, or have this knack of making the obvious appear profound.  While I do appreciate the presence of some kind of theme to lend gravity, sometimes a simple adventure story devoid of pretension is what the doctor ordered.

Good god, do I agree with you here. I just hate it when RPGs take something obvious, and run it into the ground. Theme's are great, it helps build continuity. Maybe that's why I love Rush albums so much. But you have to let the audience connect the dots. I think RPGs fall apart when they center around a theme, and then feel like they need explain every detail of their theme at every step along the way. I believe the of the strength of creating a thematic narrative comes from having the player need to make their own connections, and come to terms with the themes in their own way. In the end, it becomes THEIR themes, and they can feel stronger for having realized them. Sure, you can give them a push here, lead them in a direction there, but not shove it down their throat. You do that, and it doesn't make people think, you're just force-feeding them stuff without them being an active participant.

I'll go back to my Rush album analogy. Each album tends to have some basic theme. They may define it by the cover, album title, or it may simply come out in similarities between songs. The depth of the theme is defined by the listener, but not force fed to them. It's somewhere between being a hidden treasure and being thrown in their face. Roll the Bones simply revolves around taking risks, and prosperity that can bring. Hold Your Fire is about creativity, and how painful it can be. Power Windows revolves around the wonders and horrors of the modern age.

See, this is the basic kind of thematic content I can connect with, things aren't force fed to me. They're laid out fairly plainly, and then it's my job to make sense of it all. That way, I can feel like I've accomplished something in the processes of figuring it out... while not feeling like they've cryptically hidden it just for the sake of making me do mental jumping jacks.
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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2010, 04:59:04 PM »


OP -- your initial post was vague. But given you *are* Alisha, I'm assuming you appreciate FF being open to gender ambiguity so early in its lifetime and that's what you really liked about the humor.

Bravo, good sir. You managed to be both elitist and sexist in the same post.

As for that thing that the thread was kinda about, I'd say the humor lies in Butz's and Lenna's (ironically) general stupidity about matters (also in breaking the game wide open with a bunch of cheap rods less than a third into the game).

The humor is in a character named "Butz".  Ramza is 100% right about why Alisha appreciated the gender ambiguity though.  I never once thought Faris was a lesbian... I tend to think that asexuality is the most common trait among RPG characters.  I would be very interested if there were actually some deep homosexual undertones that I missed (and remembering FF7, maybe there were) but c'mon.

I just wanted to say that Ramza wasn't being sexist.  I facepalmed when I read the comment about Faris, almost as if I had been tricked into thinking this wasn't about homosexuality for once.

Sorry if I'm coming off too abrasively.  I do remember FFV taking itself less seriously than other games.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 05:01:50 PM by Fei » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2010, 05:59:57 PM »

Then it opens up the overall topic of RPG storylines that perhaps try too hard to be profound, try too hard to be mindscrews, or have this knack of making the obvious appear profound.  While I do appreciate the presence of some kind of theme to lend gravity, sometimes a simple adventure story devoid of pretension is what the doctor ordered.

Good god, do I agree with you here. I just hate it when RPGs take something obvious, and run it into the ground. Theme's are great, it helps build continuity. Maybe that's why I love Rush albums so much. But you have to let the audience connect the dots. I think RPGs fall apart when they center around a theme, and then feel like they need explain every detail of their theme at every step along the way. I believe the of the strength of creating a thematic narrative comes from having the player need to make their own connections, and come to terms with the themes in their own way. In the end, it becomes THEIR themes, and they can feel stronger for having realized them. Sure, you can give them a push here, lead them in a direction there, but not shove it down their throat. You do that, and it doesn't make people think, you're just force-feeding them stuff without them being an active participant.

I'll go back to my Rush album analogy. Each album tends to have some basic theme. They may define it by the cover, album title, or it may simply come out in similarities between songs. The depth of the theme is defined by the listener, but not force fed to them. It's somewhere between being a hidden treasure and being thrown in their face. Roll the Bones simply revolves around taking risks, and prosperity that can bring. Hold Your Fire is about creativity, and how painful it can be. Power Windows revolves around the wonders and horrors of the modern age.

See, this is the basic kind of thematic content I can connect with, things aren't force fed to me. They're laid out fairly plainly, and then it's my job to make sense of it all. That way, I can feel like I've accomplished something in the processes of figuring it out... while not feeling like they've cryptically hidden it just for the sake of making me do mental jumping jacks.

Yes, I too believe that the best way to communicate a good story in a video game is by allowing the player to figure out some major aspects by himself. Involving the player for me doesn't necessarily mean stuff like dialogue choices either.

Take Ico and Shadow of The Colossus for instance, I know that these aren't particularly good examples since the themes being conveyed here are simple, but both games managed to successfully involve me as a player with almost no dialogue or walls of text. The story behind the world and characters felt like it's mostly generating inside my head. That's just a case of a developer who thought of new ways to utilize the video game medium's unique capabilities. Not expecting to see this approach in an FF any time soon though.

umm... That was way off topic, wasn't it? XD
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