Why are uber-religious people driven to over-sentimentality?

[Alexander]

Sometimes I don't know what to think of these things. I'd rather just stay away from it all.

It's very difficult to separate certain beliefs apart from the people who hold them.  There was a point where I was considerably more liberal in my faith and I began working with one guy who stood for everything I hated in "conservative Christianity."  I would go home and rant to my parents about how annoying and simple minded the guy was.  I claimed he worshiped the Bible as an idol.  And my dad, being the sharp therapist he is, said "Maybe he bothers you so much because you're similar to him."

Flash-forward a good 3 years to the present and I am now, for the most part, much more like this guy I mocked than I wanted to admit.  It took me reading the Bible on my own for myself to develop my current theology.  Wasn't an easy shift at all, mostly because of pride.  It does feel a bit silly.  I felt so strongly for X views and hated Y views and just a short while later I'm flip-flopped.  Growing up is a weird thing to do, heh.

[Sagacious-T]

You really think believing in the bible, a joke of a fictional book that has undergone so many mistranslations and revisions that alter entire meanings, is growing up?

That's like a kid starting to believe in Santa Clause and thinking "This is what being an adult feels like.."

[Starmongoose]

It's a bit weird that you are happy to be the man you once hated everything about, Alexander.

[CastNuri]

I don't think it's as simple as being happy to be someone he hated.

I mean, he saw a point of view which he regarded as simplistic and naive-- but he didn't realize the thought/reading that went behind investing in that point of view. Three years later, after a lot of thinking and reading, he understands that the perspective he hated in the past is one that he can now see himself having.

We can call it "growing up" because it's similar to the process we go through when we evolve from childhood into adulthood. I mean, how many times have we - as kids or teens - called our parents' views "close-minded", "boring", "uninspired", etc? And then in later years we come to see what our parents' saw, we come to view different aspects of life which change our minds. We see this as a form of personality progress. So yeah, I don't see why he can't call it "growing up", especially since the ultimate goal here is understanding of faith. I personally don't agree with what the Bible puts forth but I can understand the principle of what Alexander is saying.

[Starmongoose]

Well, this realization he has had would obviously only seem like "growing up" to a religious person. For an atheist the growing up would be him realizing his mistake in believing it in first place.

I'm not saying that he should change his mind again, whatever makes him happy, I'm just pointing out its subjective.

[CDFN]

I agree with CastNuri that it could indeed be seen as a growth, we all change our opinions about stuff over time. My issue in this particular subject is that something like religion shouldn't be subjected to this line of thinking.

Here's why:

You spend several years defending a particular believe system, telling people that don't believe in it that they're wrong. Then you change your mind and believe in something else, admitting that the previous beliefs were false. From the moment you do that, you have to be able to admit that the religion you worship now might also be false and that in a few years you might realize that and abandon it, because you already did that. But people don't do that, they don't admit the possibility of their current believe system not being the right one, even when they were saying the same thing about another religion a few years ago. You don't get to do that. You can't expect to be taken seriously.
I've seen relatives look down on me, like they made some life changing discovery and realized things that my limited mind isn't able to comprehend. That pisses me off because they´re pathetic and don't even realize it.

Another case where someone in my family joined a different church during a moment of weakness was when my aunt was abandoned by her husband with 3 young children to raise.
So we went to see them and you could tell that things weren't good, they were strugling to survive, there was hardly any money for food. So we go to the kitchen and in the middle of some deteriorated furniture and an empty fridge there's a brand new dishwasher. This was almost 20 years ago, these things were very expensive back then, a real luxury. My father lost his mind. My aunt's justification? Her religion doesn't allow her to work on sundays so to avoid washing the dishes manually on sundays, she bought the dishwasher.

[CastNuri]

I've seen relatives look down on me, like they made some life changing discovery and realized things that my limited mind isn't able to comprehend. That pisses me off because they´re pathetic and don't even realize it.

So they look down on you, you think they're pathetic. What a productive cycle. :P

Maybe someone who has switched religions more than one or twice might not be taken seriously by atheists/other believers-- but I'm sure that they'll be taken seriously by followers of whatever faith they have switched to. I can't imagine being skeptical of a convert Muslim just because he or she has switched religions a few times.

I'm not sure if many people who convert to Islam tend to convert to another religion afterwards; I think maybe because to get into it in the first place, you'd have to be serious (and you'd have to make some serious life changes, though it depends on what faith you were before). Your dishwasher story was weird, such an odd sense of priorities. I've always thought that my faith has been a practical one-- maybe I've not come around to all of its aspects but as time goes on, I get to see how it's more practical than I would've guessed. 

Oh, and I know that the whole 'growing up' thing is subjective, I was just elucidating the religious view point in response to Thoren's post.

[Vanguard]

I agree with CastNuri that it could indeed be seen as a growth, we all change our opinions about stuff over time. My issue in this particular subject is that something like religion shouldn't be subjected to this line of thinking.

Here's why:

You spend several years defending a particular believe system, telling people that don't believe in it that they're wrong. Then you change your mind and believe in something else, admitting that the previous beliefs were false. From the moment you do that, you have to be able to admit that the religion you worship now might also be false and that in a few years you might realize that and abandon it, because you already did that. But people don't do that, they don't admit the possibility of their current believe system not being the right one, even when they were saying the same thing about another religion a few years ago. You don't get to do that. You can't expect to be taken seriously.

I think you're simplifying the whole process of belief into a binary (I believe this now/I do not believe that anymore) that doesn't leave room for a grey area. Aren't doubt and uncertainty both part of faith? It just seems silly that anyone would arrive at a conclusion about their faith and never see it change at all, or be unsure of it at times. It does happen, but I wouldn't always call this devotion--I'd call it being stubborn.

In a Station of the Metro
By Ezra Pound

The apparition of these faces in the crowd ;
Petals on a wet, black bough.

[Starmongoose]

Ezra Pound sat upon my bed, asked me which books of late I've read - asked me if I had read his own and whether I could spare pound of flesh to cover his bare bones, I said "Man, take a pound, take two. What's a pound of flesh between friends like me and you?"

[Alexander]

Well my original thoughts were things like: all religions go to Heaven as long as they were sincere and a "good person" (whatever that means), Biblical prophecy is meant to be understood allegorically, there can be woman preachers/elders, and that the Bible's original manuscripts were flawed.  I did claim that the Bible was the word of God but, at the same time, I hardly read the thing.  I got a whitewashed version in sermons and Sunday school and I was content with that.

But then I met my good buddy Greg and he basically says to me "You have to take this more seriously if you really believe this is God working in your life."  I worked with this guy for maybe 3 or 4 summers and his last words words to me were "Stay in the Book."

And I don't agree with Greg on everything, but my understanding of theology was totally revolutionized when I actually sought God through reading His Word directly and not second-hand.  Do I easily understand everything in there?  Nope.  Do I easily believe all of it?  Heck no!  There's room for doubt, that's okay.

The main thing that was changed was my understanding of grace.  I thought previously "Yeah, you just go on through life.  Don't kill anybody.  Don't cheat on your wife.  Try not to cuss too much.  Worship as you see fit and you're guaranteed to get into Paradise."  That was the main thing broken down as I was trying to "earn" salvation.  And that makes no sense!  Salvation is as such because we're helpless, we need saving!    But I had to realize He was truly perfect and I'm nowhere near His goodness to impress Him.  The standard wasn't to be an average "good" person but a perfect person as exemplified in Jesus' earthly ministry.  God was and is passionate about a relationship with me through His Son but I had to give up my pride and say "Nope, I'll never, never do it on my own.  Lord save me!"  And I wouldn't have gotten that if I hadn't listened to real Biblically-focused teaching and read the Bible for myself.

So I see it more as a scientist seeking answers through testing.  The same species discovered fire and made the internet.  The same species will likely go on to radically different things in the future.  What doesn't change is that he's constantly seeking answers.

Before I didn't pursue a earthly relationship with God by reading His Word daily.  Now I do.  The fact that I get different information now about Him than I did in the past was due to me simply following my feelings.  Now I know my feelings aren't as easy to trust.  I put my faith in the Word and I got more back than I bargained for. :)

As far as me being pleased that I am what I used to mock.  Not exactly.  It's more of a shock than anything.  Like a reformed Sith walking the Jedi temple.  Just a feeling that "Wow, I'm here.  And the last place I'd expect too."

The Snow Man
Wallace Stevens

One must have a mind of winter
To regard the frost and the boughs
Of the pine-trees crusted with snow;

And have been cold a long time
To behold the junipers shagged with ice,
The spruces rough in the distant glitter

Of the January sun; and not to think
Of any misery in the sound of the wind,
In the sound of a few leaves,

Which is the sound of the land
Full of the same wind
That is blowing in the same bare place

For the listener, who listens in the snow,
And, nothing himself, beholds
Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is.

[Starmongoose]

I think we can agree that at least we all like RPGs

[Vanguard]

I think we can agree that at least we all like RPGs

Shut it, blasphemer.

[Hidoshi]

I've seen relatives look down on me, like they made some life changing discovery and realized things that my limited mind isn't able to comprehend. That pisses me off because they´re pathetic and don't even realize it.

So they look down on you, you think they're pathetic. What a productive cycle. :P

Maybe someone who has switched religions more than one or twice might not be taken seriously by atheists/other believers-- but I'm sure that they'll be taken seriously by followers of whatever faith they have switched to. I can't imagine being skeptical of a convert Muslim just because he or she has switched religions a few times.

I'm not sure if many people who convert to Islam tend to convert to another religion afterwards; I think maybe because to get into it in the first place, you'd have to be serious (and you'd have to make some serious life changes, though it depends on what faith you were before). Your dishwasher story was weird, such an odd sense of priorities. I've always thought that my faith has been a practical one-- maybe I've not come around to all of its aspects but as time goes on, I get to see how it's more practical than I would've guessed. 

Oh, and I know that the whole 'growing up' thing is subjective, I was just elucidating the religious view point in response to Thoren's post.

What about if you were pluralistic to begin with, and have a family with similar history?

[CDFN]

I agree with CastNuri that it could indeed be seen as a growth, we all change our opinions about stuff over time. My issue in this particular subject is that something like religion shouldn't be subjected to this line of thinking.

Here's why:

You spend several years defending a particular believe system, telling people that don't believe in it that they're wrong. Then you change your mind and believe in something else, admitting that the previous beliefs were false. From the moment you do that, you have to be able to admit that the religion you worship now might also be false and that in a few years you might realize that and abandon it, because you already did that. But people don't do that, they don't admit the possibility of their current believe system not being the right one, even when they were saying the same thing about another religion a few years ago. You don't get to do that. You can't expect to be taken seriously.

I think you're simplifying the whole process of belief into a binary (I believe this now/I do not believe that anymore) that doesn't leave room for a grey area. Aren't doubt and uncertainty both part of faith? It just seems silly that anyone would arrive at a conclusion about their faith and never see it change at all, or be unsure of it at times. It does happen, but I wouldn't always call this devotion--I'd call it being stubborn.

In a Station of the Metro
By Ezra Pound

The apparition of these faces in the crowd ;
Petals on a wet, black bough.

What I'm pointing out is precisely the fact that most people don't admit there's a grey area, it's blind faith, everything the preacher feeds them is an undisputable fact. Untill something else comes along and you pretend that it never happened.

[CastNuri]

What about if you were pluralistic to begin with, and have a family with similar history?

Sorry, what part of my post are you addressing-- the converting bit? Just woke up from a nap, brain's a bit fuzzy.