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Author Topic: 30 characters that defined a decade  (Read 3196 times)
Hidoshi
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« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2010, 01:19:09 PM »

I'd like to think that our research and metering are a little better. This list does not feel thought-through, or even reached by consensus in any way.

Yes, they can post what they want, but it's ridiculous to ask that people not be agitated by it. On top of that, if you're a media establishment of some repute (which GameInformer is), you can't be blind to the idea of self-marketing. You have a responsibility at that point to be more thoughtful with your content. You're not just some kid's blog and one man's opinion. What you say has some weight, and if you state a poorly informed opinion, expect to be called out on it.

Fact is, they posted a poorly thought-out list and people are well within their rights to criticise it. Calling bullshit when a media outlet posts something this poorly researched is pretty much every one of our rights. I have no idea why you're playing devil's advocate over this one, because there pretty much is no reason to.
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Dice
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« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2010, 01:19:53 PM »

Or they can post what they want to their site, and anyone else with a site is free to do the same.

I think a good deal of stuff we've posted has come under fire for equally flimsy reasons.

And this is why debate is so much fun. =D
So you can post shit and argue it and grow, and learn, and develop socially or something...
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« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2010, 10:01:27 PM »

I don't see how it's 'poorly researched.' They made a list about their best/most influential characters of the decade, they should be able to pick their choices without someone saying "WHY ISN'T LIGHTING ON THIS LIST" or "WHY IS ANYONE FROM RDR HERE." Why not anyone from Red Dead Redemption? John Marston was an excellent character and well worth the title of one of the most 'influential' characters of the decade. Our RPGs of the decade list had a large amount of SMT titles, I'm sure someone somewhere is going "What? SMT games? Not even close! FFX was the best, those fucktards." To me, the people in this thread criticizing the list are equally idiotic.

The only reason I see people giving is that 'GRR this list doesn't have characters I LIKE, it sucks RARGHRGHAKD," which is pretty much the dumbest reasoning I've ever seen. Some people aren't even giving a reason, just saying 'terrible list.' Blah blah. I'm playing devil's advocate because you people have no respect for any sort of free print ideal. I don't think you quite realize how ridiculous your arguments look.

"This is poorly researched!" Okay, how? "The characters on this list suck because my favorites aren't in here!" Big deal. Make your own top 30 list if you're so indignant.
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« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2010, 10:10:36 PM »

Yes, they can post what they want, but it's ridiculous to ask that people not be agitated by it.

Given that this is a list of video game characters it's not unreasonable to ask people to try to not be agitated by it! Maybe it's just bad word choice on your part, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with their choices, but it's not the kind of thing you should let yourself get too worked up over.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2010, 11:31:44 AM »

I don't see how it's 'poorly researched.' They made a list about their best/most influential characters of the decade, they should be able to pick their choices without someone saying "WHY ISN'T LIGHTING ON THIS LIST" or "WHY IS ANYONE FROM RDR HERE." Why not anyone from Red Dead Redemption? John Marston was an excellent character and well worth the title of one of the most 'influential' characters of the decade. Our RPGs of the decade list had a large amount of SMT titles, I'm sure someone somewhere is going "What? SMT games? Not even close! FFX was the best, those fucktards." To me, the people in this thread criticizing the list are equally idiotic.

...

"This is poorly researched!" Okay, how? "The characters on this list suck because my favorites aren't in here!" Big deal. Make your own top 30 list if you're so indignant.

If the list were qualified as "our favourite", then everything you've said would be true. This would all be whining over nothing. But it's qualified as "most influential", which requires that you actually pay some attention to how much influence these characters have actually had.

By default, I'd assume that "influence" here means having impact on the mass perception of video game characters, somehow affecting pop culture (even if just within the subculture), or gaining mass recognition in some way that is not only lasting, but also meaningful.

Calling it early is the first problem. If it were something like the Portal phenomenon with GLaDOS, you might be able to say "instant classic", but even then it'd be difficult, because it could be a flash-in-the-pan and fade out really quick. GLaDOS hasn't, making her an appropriate candidate for this list.

But RDR's characters? Not one of them has made a lasting impression on the gaming community, nor the wider geek community. Nico Bellic at least has general recognition. Now, it may just be that RDR's cast needs to build up some steam, which is why calling it early like this is bad, because they may or may not matter. Similarly, Dragon Age has been out long enough to call it, but its characters have left no lasting impression on the wider community, so why are any of them up there?

It seems very much like this is an "our favourites" list, not a "most influential" list. There just isn't an argument that supports the second kind of qualification. I'm not arguing for the whiners who want Lightning or someone else they like up there, I'm arguing for a better qualification process. Again, does Auron belong up there? Well, I like him a lot better than I like Yuna, but I can't argue for him. Auron was a one-shot, and he didn't really have any "influence" whatsoever. Yuna on the other hand? Again, look at what she did for the cosplay community. Look at how much press coverage she got because of X-2 being the first real FF sequel. She's become a poster girl for all that. I think that matters a lot when you want to talk about influence.
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Azrael
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« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2010, 12:24:22 PM »

I don't think anyone here has given a bad reason for why this list sucks.  I also hate the "It's their site, they can post what they want" argument.  Yes, they can post whatever they want, but that doesn't mean everyone has to simply accept it as is.  Sure, RPGFan has things posted on it that people don't agree with, but what's the point of simply getting defensive if someone posts their disagreements?  You have to be willing to accept those criticisms if you put something in such a public space.
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