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Author Topic: Favorite and Least Favourite Tactical RPGs  (Read 12336 times)
Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2010, 09:34:45 AM »

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Also Advance Wars is not as complicated, but it tends to be more balanced with less broken stuff to abuse.

-Max with +50% attack boost to direct units
-Grit with +50% attack boost to all ranged units, making him quite possibly the most busted CO in the entire series, ever
-Nell has ludicrous luck boost
-Sami has a completely worthless COP
-Eagle's COP is hideously powerful and doesn't cost much more than a Normal power, making it the most busted it could possibly be
-Sonja just plain bad, doesn't even have an upside outside of FOW

Yeah, that's not hideously unbalanced at all.  Advance Wars is a good game, and a great series, but the first game is hardly an example of its best side.

And the only really complicated Advance Campaign levels were the FOW ones where you just get bombed to hell on turn 2 unless you have foreknowledge of where the units already are.  AW2's Advance Campaign is much, much better balanced and fair, and has far more legitimately difficult maps that don't resort to crap like that.  And although AW2 had more clearly dilineated "tiers" of CO's, there were several in each tier, as opposed to AW1, where it was Grit or go home.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 09:38:07 AM by Gen Eric Gui » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2010, 11:12:54 AM »

its not the graphics its the shitty antiquated gameplay thats the problem. ALL of the gba fire emblems are better than the DS ones.
Explain, please.

what is there to explain? the gba FE's have more classes and better looking animations theres various omissions. plus MY UNIT sucks ass if you only want to make a female unit.
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2010, 11:42:26 AM »

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Also Advance Wars is not as complicated, but it tends to be more balanced with less broken stuff to abuse.
Yeah, that's not hideously unbalanced at all.  Advance Wars is a good game, and a great series, but the first game is hardly an example of its best side.

And the only really complicated Advance Campaign levels were the FOW ones where you just get bombed to hell on turn 2 unless you have foreknowledge of where the units already are.  AW2's Advance Campaign is much, much better balanced and fair, and has far more legitimately difficult maps that don't resort to crap like that.
I was talking about single player balance.  Why you are bringing multiplayer into a convo about single player content is beyond me.  In AW2 you could pick Sturm and destroy the War Room.  In AW:DS you could grind for better stats or use any number of broken combinations to make a joke of the game, etc. AWs maps are well balanced with no one CO being able to handily destroy the game even in the War Room.

You're throwing around words like "really" "legitimately" and balanced carelessly with little grasp of what they mean - calling things 'really this' or 'really that' is meaninglessly trying to stamp your opinion as a fact.  Fog of war means you are a little less sure of what steps to take to clear the map most efficiently - it's a map condition, not something that magically makes the game unfair.  Some of the most difficult AW maps don't have FoW at all.  I know already that you aren't that good of a player and getting the best scores on every advance campaign map is one of the most difficult challenges in a console tactics game, so it's likely you either haven't even played it, or you just turtled through it with terrible scores and avoided the most difficult maps.  Either way, you don't know what you're talking about.  Take a good look at these guides to appreciate how complex some of the map solutions are.
My AW guide.
AW Revival illustrated guide.

what is there to explain? the gba FE's have more classes and better looking animations theres various omissions. plus MY UNIT sucks ass if you only want to make a female unit.
More classes doesn't mean any particular game is better.  Most expert players turn animations off to play the game more quickly, so it doesn't matter to me what they look like.  A female pegasus My Unit can be extremely powerful, even better than Catria or Palla who are already two of the best units in the game.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:25:03 PM by mjrpgfan » Logged
Fadedsun
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« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2010, 12:08:50 PM »

Average Ones:  Final Fantasy Tactics,

im glad to know im not the only one who thinks so, i found it to be pretty lackluster and to have a relatively broken combat system.

My main beef was battles simply took way too long.  Mastery of classes therefore, took forever.  Hell, even blackmages took 3 full rounds for some spells to pull and by then everyone is out of the vicinity.

Have you ever played Tactics Ogre? Battles in Tactics Ogre are way longer than any battle in FFT. I thought FFT's battle were relatively short.
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Mickeymac92
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« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2010, 01:20:18 PM »

Man, I need to play Tactics Ogre...

its not the graphics its the shitty antiquated gameplay thats the problem. ALL of the gba fire emblems are better than the DS ones.
Explain, please.

what is there to explain? the gba FE's have more classes and better looking animations theres various omissions. plus MY UNIT sucks ass if you only want to make a female unit.

Hence why this isn't Fire Emblem 11. Personally, I'd just adjust my expectations. So wat if it's worse than the GBA Fire Emblems thanks to some omissions, which are due to the fact that it's an old game? Does that stop it from being good or at least decent?
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« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2010, 01:24:22 PM »

Average Ones:  Final Fantasy Tactics,

im glad to know im not the only one who thinks so, i found it to be pretty lackluster and to have a relatively broken combat system.

My main beef was battles simply took way too long.  Mastery of classes therefore, took forever.  Hell, even blackmages took 3 full rounds for some spells to pull and by then everyone is out of the vicinity.

Have you ever played Tactics Ogre? Battles in Tactics Ogre are way longer than any battle in FFT. I thought FFT's battle were relatively short.

SNES Rom > Speed up Button. =)
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2010, 02:10:18 PM »

All I'm hearing is "Maps where you have to blindly guess until you get a perfect score are WAY better tests of skill then maps where you have information to go on and can make informed decsions and get A's the first time through because you know how to play the game instead of just being able to memorize what enemies do".  You are basically asserting that Battleship is a more robust game then chess.

And AW1 War Room maps can basically be conquered completely with Grit.  He is far and away the best CO in the series, AW1 Grit makes AW2 Sturm look like silly putty.

Also ahahaha at the terrible player comment.  For someone who throws accusations of people throing their opinion around as fact, you sure do seem to do a lot of that yourself.

I both love it and hate it when you come around.  You're so full of yourself, it's both painful and kind of funny to watch.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2010, 02:31:49 PM »



SNES Rom > Speed up Button. =)

That doesn't count! Considering the original versions of each game Tactics Ogre had much longer battles. Of course the battles in Tactics Ogre will seem shorter if you're using the fast forward option on an EMU and the FFT battles will feel longer by comparison.

All I'm hearing is "Maps where you have to blindly guess until you get a perfect score are WAY better tests of skill then maps where you have information to go on and can make informed decsions and get A's the first time through because you know how to play the game instead of just being able to memorize what enemies do".

How are FOW maps blindly guessing? There are units specifically designed to help you in FOW situations. For example, a mech on a mountain will have its vision increased. Recons also have higher vision. You send them out to see what's ahead. You don't just march forward with no thought.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 02:36:25 PM by Fadedsun » Logged

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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2010, 02:52:20 PM »

All I'm hearing is "Maps where you have to blindly guess until you get a perfect score are WAY better tests of skill then maps where you have information to go on and can make informed decsions and get A's the first time through because you know how to play the game instead of just being able to memorize what enemies do".  You are basically asserting that Battleship is a more robust game then chess.

And AW1 War Room maps can basically be conquered completely with Grit.  He is far and away the best CO in the series, AW1 Grit makes AW2 Sturm look like silly putty.

Also ahahaha at the terrible player comment.  For someone who throws accusations of people throing their opinion around as fact, you sure do seem to do a lot of that yourself.

I both love it and hate it when you come around.  You're so full of yourself, it's both painful and kind of funny to watch.

Nobody cares about your opinion on fog of war maps in AW.  Your flawed analogies and incorrect assumptions are not worth responding to, especially when they start with "all I'm hearing" and end with you setting up a strawman to knock down.  You didn't even visit the links I gave you, as you're still ranting on about Grit, so there's not much helping you.

A players skill level is a measurable, factual statistic.  Your opinion on what is fair or not is not.  That you can't tell the difference between the two speaks much for your inability to differentiate fact from opinion.  It's also very telling you refuse to state whether you've even played the content you're talking about.  You are only embarrassing yourself in the eyes of players more knowledgeable and skilled than you.

And yes, we both know you're not that good at tactics games.  No need to be shy about it or accuse people for being 'full of themselves' for pointing out the facts.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 03:24:10 PM by mjrpgfan » Logged
Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2010, 03:36:11 PM »

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How are FOW maps blindly guessing? There are units specifically designed to help you in FOW situations. For example, a mech on a mountain will have its vision increased. Recons also have higher vision. You send them out to see what's ahead. You don't just march forward with no thought.


There are a handful of maps in the AW1 advance campaign that are complete blind guesses.  As in, no enemy units within recon/mountain sight range, because they're all Copters and Jets that sweep in and crush you in two turns and there's no way to know they are coming or from what direction.  There's at least one map where you're stuck on a small island surrounded by about 5-6 Jets + Copters that you cannot see that will absolutely stomp you and there isn't anything you can do about it except play the map over and over until you get the exact movements necessary to make it out alive.

I have no problem with FOW maps, as when they are properly designed or when they're played PvP on an even field you can actually set up such countermeasures and can properly deal with the effect.  It can make the game very fun, and it actually completely swaps the power level of several CO's (Most notably, Sami is WAY better in FOW then she is on a normal map, while Grit loses quite a bit of his effectiveness...heck, even Colin loses some of his foothold in FOW), which is an interesting treat.  A map as I've outlined above, however, is nothing more than random chance and/or memorization, and it's what quite a few of the AW1 Advance Campaign maps consist of.  You could potentially win the map quite easily, if you turtle up and mass produce chump infantry to soak up damage while you slowly remove the copters, but you wouldn't get a "high score".  To do that, you have to blindly charge ahead and make a certain series of perfect moves which requires you to sit and play them map over and over and over until you memorize the location of all the jets so that you can fly past them and win the map early.

Winning maps like that has nothing to do with skill, it's just memorization and stubbornness.


mjem: Is the Days of Ruin online component still working?  I'd love to play against you and see exactly how good you actually are.  Being able to beat the AI means nothing, because the AI in these games is incompetent.  If you want to prove you're a good player, let's do it arcade-style.

And FYI, AW2 Grit and Colin stomp all over Sturm every day of the week.  This has been confirmed over and over by the community that actually plays the game, and AW2 Grit is actually WEAKER then his AW1 version.  Thinking that Grit isn't the best CO in the game kind of runis your credibility here.

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Your opinion on what is fair or not is not.

I don't recalle ver mentioning something beign fair or not.  I said that maps wher eyou get bomboed out on turn two unless you already knew the attack was coming are not a test of play skill, they are a test of memorization skill or of blind luck.  I'm well aware of how to get top scores on those maps in the Advance Campaign, which is why I know that most of the time they're completely arbitrary sets of exact movements that you have to make based off of rarely complete information.  Just because it has a score attached doesn't mean it's a good test of skill.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 03:43:28 PM by Gen Eric Gui » Logged
mjrpgfan
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« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2010, 03:44:46 PM »

mjem: Is the Days of Ruin online component still working?  I'd love to play against you and see exactly how good you actually are.  Being able to beat the AI means nothing, because the AI in these games is incompetent.  If you want to prove you're a good player, let's do it arcade-style.

And FYI, AW2 Grit and Colin stomp all over Sturm every day of the week.  This has been confirmed over and over by the community that actually plays the game, and AW2 Grit is actually WEAKER then his AW1 version.  Thinking that Grit isn't the best CO in the game kind of runis your credibility here.
You are continuing to talk about pvp when it's been firmly established that we're talking about the single player content here.  I'm pretty sure something is misfiring up in your head.
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« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2010, 03:58:48 PM »

@Gen, I'd be happy to play you in multiplayer sometime if Mjrpgfan isn't up for it. I'm always willing to play a human opponent. Shoot me a PM sometime and we can try and set something up.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2010, 04:09:43 PM »

Mjem: Most PvP data is easily transferred over to normal games.  Especially in terms of CO power level.  Grit in the campaign is just as strong as he in in PvP, when played correctly.  Actually, heck, for the most part the CO power levels don't even matter in the campaign, or even the advance campaign, because the AI is so incredibly dumb.  But just because they don't matter doesn't mean they don't exist.

But you continue to miss the main point of my posts, as you always do.  You keep going on and on about how you're so great at Strategy games, whena ll you can actually do is beat the incompetent AI by memorizing what they do over and over until you can do the thing perfectly.  This means you're awfully good at a game of Simon, but it doesn't mean you're actually good at the game itself.  There's an awfully big difference.

@Fadedsun: I'm up for it whenever, assuming the system is still up.  I'll send a PM later.
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2010, 04:21:01 PM »

You have no clue how skilled I am at PvP games, but you seem to have no shortage of immature and irrelevant accusations.  I suggest you read my SRPG 101 article, although it seems you have trouble clicking on links.  Needless to say, you are wrong when it comes to skill at single player games.  If you've already read it and didn't get the point and continue to spout nonsense, there's no helping you.  And if you think PvP is 'teh best!!1' and PvE players are scrubs, what are you even doing in this thread besides embarrassing yourself and trying to stir up shit?
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« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2010, 04:24:37 PM »

I always felt like AW1 maps tended to stalemate WAY too easily. Largely when playing against Grit as like, Sami or Andy. Because that's all the campaign gives you.
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