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Author Topic: Mass Effect 3 (expect spoilers for the entire series)  (Read 83267 times)
Bleaker
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« Reply #1050 on: July 10, 2012, 11:30:27 AM »

So I let a friend borrow ME1 awhile back, he liked it generally and a few days ago he borrowed ME2 from me... He then told me that he did not plan on ever playing ME3, that he doesn't take the game very seriously, and he did not import his character into ME2 because he didn't care whether his choices mattered or not.

Yeah, he is never getting an RPG from me again. Also I still have not played the Extended Cut because my internet blows and I'm not able to download it. Oh well, I've watched them, and wasn't in love with them. Didn't not like them either. I guess I'm just indifferent.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #1051 on: July 10, 2012, 02:40:37 PM »

So your friend likes Call of Shitty I see?
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Der Jermeister
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« Reply #1052 on: July 10, 2012, 03:07:51 PM »

Beat this recently, and I don't really understand people's complaints about the ending.
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kyuusei
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« Reply #1053 on: July 10, 2012, 06:17:18 PM »

Current DLC rumours include Earth multiplayer (Vancouver/London/Rio maps plus a bunch of human classes) and Leviathan single player DLC involving a rogue Reaper. I'd be okay with this.

Still want Aria/Omega DLC though.
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Bleaker
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« Reply #1054 on: July 12, 2012, 01:51:21 PM »

So your friend likes Call of Shitty I see?

Me and him play it occasionally, we both agree that the latest ones have sucked, but I think that Call of Duty is fun to play occasionally. He just finished ME2, talked with him while he did the suicide mission. I accidentally gave him some bad advice that got Mordin and Jack killed. He also got very afraid that Miranda and Garrus died at the end. I should probably tell him that a bunch of the ME2 crew are only in ME3 for a few minutes. I think he'd get more than a little angry.

I think his attitude towards the series has changed drastically. He liked ME2 a lot more than ME1. Which I think is crazy, because Mass Effect 1 is one of the best western RPGS on this generation. As matter of fact the entire series, even with its bad moments, was the best WRPG series this generation.
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Parn
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« Reply #1055 on: July 12, 2012, 08:26:33 PM »

Beat this recently, and I don't really understand people's complaints about the ending.

http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bullshit-artistic-process/

Enjoy the article.  It encapsulates why I hate the endings better than I could verbalize it.  It's pretty bad when a glorified game over screen (the new refuse ending) is a significantly more satisfying ending than even the extended versions of the existing endings.
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #1056 on: July 12, 2012, 08:41:36 PM »

Beat this recently, and I don't really understand people's complaints about the ending.

http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bullshit-artistic-process/

Enjoy the article.  It encapsulates why I hate the endings better than I could verbalize it.  It's pretty bad when a glorified game over screen (the new refuse ending) is a significantly more satisfying ending than even the extended versions of the existing endings.

"Also, no matter what, no matter how much ass you kick, you’re dead? Yeah. No thanks, man."

*minor nitpick*

This part of the arguement against the ending kinda makes me want to call "BS" on the fans personally.

Keep in mind I've only played the first game, but everything pretty much outright says the Reapers as a force are unbeatable. Hell the fight with Sovereign should've drilled that in completely. One lone Reaper ship come to call and pretty much every high caliber ship available had to be called in with most of them getting reduced to scrap iron. You pretty much have to find some other way than 'We're going to defeat them.' to deal with this threat. People, far more advanced than any of you smucks, have been trying the headbutting solution for multiple millennia and failing every, single, time. 'History repeats' parable anyone?

Maybe I need to play 2 & 3 to understand exactly where all the 'But we can do it this time' hope comes from; but personally I see this as RPG fans being more than a bit spoiled by JRPGs the last decade.

An evil 'unstoppable' force coming against you? We'll kill it with love, friendship and spikey hair!
A world-eating behemoth about to end your entire planet? No problem; we've got a magical barrier maiden for that!
God himself saying 'Thou needest to shut up and die now'. Pft, nothing my 14ft long sword can't cleave in two!

JRPGs, by and large, have no such thing as an 'unbeatable' villain; even if said villain could snuff out the sun itself with just a thought (and yet is somehow vulnerable to some lanky 16 year old tossing a physics defying frisbee of minor doom). Personally I think the fact that, no matter what you do, victory by force in impossible; is a much needed breath of freaking fresh air.

To put it in old PnP terms; if the PC is stupid enough to think they can marshal an army against a Half-Golem, Vampiric, Celestian, Half-Dragon, Epic Tarrasque...what do you think is going to happen? XP
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 08:50:27 PM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
Ashton
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« Reply #1057 on: July 12, 2012, 10:21:18 PM »

That article confuses me.

First, it goes on about the lack of impact the decisions have on the final endings. Disregarding themes and overarching plots (which can be debated for a long time with no concrete outcome), I can accept this argument as a point against the endings - fair enough.

But then the author goes on to state that a binary decision of the "original, true ending," (which is unconfirmed by the way, they left a lot of hooks for various different scenarios to play out) where the entire series' decisions and results boil down to "Betray organics and become Reapers" or "Screw Reapers and hope to find a solution to the Dark Matter crap eventually" is SUPERIOR? So a TWO CHOICE binary ending that is basically black and white dichotomy is BETTER than the three choice grey morality endings? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the storyline being "Something we use in everyday life is somehow detrimental to our society and maybe we shouldn't use it anymore" theme is - wait for it - a central theme in Tales games. What the flying fuck?

I call bullshit. Now, the Dark Energy ending does seem fascinating in its own right, but people are focusing on the wrong thing here. I already said so before, but transplanting Mass Effect's endings into other works is a retarded way to show the point of one's argument. If we REALLY wanted to make an argument that they should've gone with Dark Energy, then maybe we should state how the Quarians made a big ass deal about Haestrom going Red Giant too soon, to no apparent conclusion, thus providing insufficient closure for a major plot point from the previous game, while the Organics vs Synthetics storyline had been already resolved by the time the final battle rolled around.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #1058 on: July 12, 2012, 10:41:54 PM »

I think the game is now 4 months old and this arguement has kind of staled a bit now. Bioware trolled us, good job guys. Your endings are terrible, except the only good one because it's the most "human" ending ever, and it still ends poorly (albeit entertainingly) for it. When your next big RPG saga hits and 1/3 of the player base you had prior doesn't show up, you'll know why. When you spout shit about choosing your path and we disbelieve you, it'll be understood why. When you name the game after a concept found in the game, we'll know it will eventually have nothing to do with the final focus of the story.


Don't bite the hands that feed you.
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« Reply #1059 on: July 12, 2012, 11:04:19 PM »

When your next big RPG saga hits and 1/3 of the player base you had prior doesn't show up, you'll know why.

Considering their next title might be Dragon Age 3... erg...
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Agent D.
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« Reply #1060 on: July 12, 2012, 11:08:07 PM »

When your next big RPG saga hits and 1/3 of the player base you had prior doesn't show up, you'll know why.

Considering their next title might be Dragon Age 3... erg...
Furthering my point, how many people shat on dragon age 2, which was a step backward in nearly everyway (except for me, I didn't like 1 in the first place).
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GrimReality
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« Reply #1061 on: July 13, 2012, 09:36:27 AM »

Personally, I will happily buy their next game if it's well reviewed and something I'm interested in. Regardless of the ending controversy, the game itself was fantastic. To focus on a 15 minute ending over a 40 hour game just seems so petty to me. *shrugs*
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Parn
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« Reply #1062 on: July 13, 2012, 06:28:00 PM »

So a TWO CHOICE binary ending that is basically black and white dichotomy is BETTER than the three choice grey morality endings?

Absolutely.  You can offer a person three different methods to make a bowl of oatmeal, but in the end, you're still getting a bowl of oatmeal.

Your claim that the two choice binary ending possibilities are black and white is pretty far off, I'd say.  It's not simply a question of good choice versus bad choice.  For the record, you're not betraying organics with one of the choices.  You're betraying your own kind... humans.  The choice to aid the reapers by sacrificing humanity and building a human reaper which you know for a fact will resolve the dark energy problem is a very hard choice to make.  You will save the galaxy, but at the cost of betraying the very people you swore to protect.  Could you really make that choice if you were in that position?  Choice aside, this even ties in to the entirety of Mass Effect 2, where the whole game revolved around the Collectors gathering humans to create a human reaper... the final boss of that game.  It would have served as one of those "oh, so that's what the reapers were trying to accomplish with that giant monstrosity" moments.  The other choice is to say fuck off to the reapers and pursue your own path, with no way to know if the galaxy can find a solution to the dark energy problem... and likely won't.  But the galaxy would at a minimum enjoy several more centuries of time before it all fell apart and you wouldn't be sacrificing your own kind.  Could you really make that choice if you were in that position?

Now, the above may be only two choices, but they carry significantly more weight than the three options you're given in the retail release, and it ties in Mass Effect 2 quite nicely.  I'm sorry, but there's just no comparison.  The retail release's three choices are fucking weak sauce.  I think Fable 2 had a more significant choice thrust upon the player at the end.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 06:32:02 PM by Parn » Logged
ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #1063 on: July 15, 2012, 02:45:42 AM »

Since I've seen copies on ME2 with all the DLC included floating around I have a few questions:

-Are the 'prior events' from ME1 in ME2-PS3 version completely set in one stone path or are they randomized every time you start a new game? (As the PS3 has no ME 1 to download a prior save from.)

-If it's one single pre-game path; what things do they elect to count as canon? (Council living/dying, chosen romantic partner, ect.)

-Will I really be missing out on a large part of the 'make your own story' by playing a version that doesn't have ME1 backwards compatibility?

Just wondering because ME3's price is tanking; so it might be smarter/quicker for my situation to just buy the PS3 versions rather than waiting for a new computer than can handle ME2-3 and buying it off Origin.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 02:52:27 AM by ZeronHitaro » Logged
Ashton
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« Reply #1064 on: July 15, 2012, 07:26:46 AM »

Now, the above may be only two choices, but they carry significantly more weight than the three options you're given in the retail release, and it ties in Mass Effect 2 quite nicely.  I'm sorry, but there's just no comparison.  The retail release's three choices are fucking weak sauce.  I think Fable 2 had a more significant choice thrust upon the player at the end.
You have a point about the choices not being black and white, and to be honest, I think the Dark Energy ending is pretty fascinating myself - but then, if we're to assert that it was the originally intended ending all along, then it brings with it its own, completely new set of problems. First and foremost being, if the Reapers discovered that Mass Effect technology was causing Dark Energy to rampage out of control, why would they continue to allow galactic civilization to utilize it for MILLIONS OF YEARS before putting their final plan to contain the phenomenon into motion? Why not destroy all the Mass Relays and ensure that any spacefaring race does not utilize Mass Effect technology upon threat of extermination while trying to find a solution to the problem? Even hand waving that part, how exactly would they combat Dark Energy, an ostensibly natural phenomenon? I mean, it's like asking scientists now to find a way to control earthquakes and tornadoes. I get the feeling that fans are just enamored with 'what could have been' and thus elevate the Dark Energy ending into some sort of perfect ending when it has just as many problems - if not more - than the endings we got.

Since I've seen copies on ME2 with all the DLC included floating around I have a few questions:

-Are the 'prior events' from ME1 in ME2-PS3 version completely set in one stone path or are they randomized every time you start a new game? (As the PS3 has no ME 1 to download a prior save from.)

-If it's one single pre-game path; what things do they elect to count as canon? (Council living/dying, chosen romantic partner, ect.)

-Will I really be missing out on a large part of the 'make your own story' by playing a version that doesn't have ME1 backwards compatibility?

Just wondering because ME3's price is tanking; so it might be smarter/quicker for my situation to just buy the PS3 versions rather than waiting for a new computer than can handle ME2-3 and buying it off Origin.
Mass Effect 2 on PS3 comes with Genesis, a comic styled 'last time on...' type thing that lets you make choices for six of the major decisions from the previous Mass Effect. These include (SPOILERS, obviously): Whether you kill the Rachni off, which romance partner you select, who you leave on Virmire, whether or not you save the Council, whether you were able to talk down Wrex on Virmire, and who Shepard chooses to be the human Councillor.

Some choices affect side quest availability and dialogue during ME2 and 3. If you want to see everything you'll want to start with ME1. If you're okay with missing some side quests and extra stuff, then skipping ME1 isn't a catastrophic loss.
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