Dark Souls

[Yggdrasil]

I need people for the Four Kings boss but I keep seeing the "Summoning Failed" message over and over again. Getting summoned is always really tedious in most places too, with the exception of Sen's Fortress and Ariamis that are the only places in where you can get summoned if you wait a little.

But New Londo Ruins is almost impossible for me to summon random dudes.

[Eusis]

So I just learned the hard way that I can't progress past the tomb of the giants yet and had to backtrack. How was I supposed to know that? What kind of game design is this? I must've died a 100 times down there, first trying to get through and then trying to get out. At least I collected a ton of items since I ended up exploring every inch of that place.

If you could beat it then

Code:

you'd be stuck in a pit with no way out. Of course that would be another example of flawed design.

Also I think you're supposed to know because holy FUCK is it hard lets go do something else instead. Like the older DQs and whatnot.

[ZeronHitaro]

I'd argue the more prominent example of "bad game design" in regards to the Tomb of the Giants is that unless you know to kill the hydra and go warp to a distant bonfire before returning to walk around the edge of a lake with potential insta-death if you go too far in so that you can find a golden golem in the far nook to kill it and thus free a lady who them drops a summon sign way back where the hyrda ordeal began where you can buy a special sorcery projecting the super magical power of a personal lightbulb...it's pretty much impossible.

Even King's Quest is sitting in a corner going..."What the hell!?!?"

[Fadedsun]

So I just learned the hard way that I can't progress past the tomb of the giants yet and had to backtrack. How was I supposed to know that? What kind of game design is this? I must've died a 100 times down there, first trying to get through and then trying to get out. At least I collected a ton of items since I ended up exploring every inch of that place.
Went back and killed the hydra, would've done it sooner if I had known it was that easy, at least it gave me a dragon scale to upgrade the drake sword.

So I reached the bonfire and got the skull lantern. Please tell me I can kill Patches now. I talked to him and got a good item but he'll probably drop something if I kill him, I just wanna make sure I don't miss out on anything by killing him now.

Patches opens up a shop later in Firelink Shrine. Killing him will net you Crescent Axe, but it`s already among the items he sells, so killing him is still inadvisable. That is until you`ve purchased everything from him; after that he`s disposable.

Fuck it, I was so pissed off for having to backtrack to the firelink shrine that I just killed him to relieve some of the stress.

You mentioned a while back that you needed the Lordvessel before you went into the Tomb of Giants. I figured you wouldn't have gone in before you did that. Did you beat Anor Londo? I made the same mistake you did, though. Went all the way in. Died a million times. Got to the boss and realized I couldn't get past the light. I was so pissed. Luckily I had already gotten the Lordvessel and could warp out. I just didn't know I needed to talk to that rabbit thing after I got it.

[Eusis]

I'd argue the more prominent example of "bad game design" in regards to the Tomb of the Giants is that unless you know to kill the hydra and go warp to a distant bonfire before returning to walk around the edge of a lake with potential insta-death if you go too far in so that you can find a golden golem in the far nook to kill it and thus free a lady who them drops a summon sign way back where the hyrda ordeal began where you can buy a special sorcery projecting the super magical power of a personal lightbulb...it's pretty much impossible.

Even King's Quest is sitting in a corner going..."What the hell!?!?"

There's an item not far in (but far ENOUGH in) that, when held, illuminates the area around you to the same degree as that spell. It's still a pain to get there though, and you'd be sacrificing shield use against some of the strongest enemies in the game. Then there's the Crystal Caves and its invisible walkways, and the first part of Lost Izalith. Really, the game kind of comes off as trying too hard at the end and ends up being obnoxious more than a nice challenge.

[Yggdrasil]

This games got me thinking in what if From Software makes another one of these in a couple of years more, and maybe for the next generation of consoles. Anyone here that has played both games want more of this style of RPG? Or you guys feel that with Dark Souls it was more than enough?

For me, I feel more than satisfied with Dark Souls. I can't see that in the future I would want to play a game like this again for the sake of my sanity.

I do hope that the people behind both games would do something new though.

[CDFN]

So I just learned the hard way that I can't progress past the tomb of the giants yet and had to backtrack. How was I supposed to know that? What kind of game design is this? I must've died a 100 times down there, first trying to get through and then trying to get out. At least I collected a ton of items since I ended up exploring every inch of that place.
Went back and killed the hydra, would've done it sooner if I had known it was that easy, at least it gave me a dragon scale to upgrade the drake sword.

So I reached the bonfire and got the skull lantern. Please tell me I can kill Patches now. I talked to him and got a good item but he'll probably drop something if I kill him, I just wanna make sure I don't miss out on anything by killing him now.

Patches opens up a shop later in Firelink Shrine. Killing him will net you Crescent Axe, but it`s already among the items he sells, so killing him is still inadvisable. That is until you`ve purchased everything from him; after that he`s disposable.

Fuck it, I was so pissed off for having to backtrack to the firelink shrine that I just killed him to relieve some of the stress.

You mentioned a while back that you needed the Lordvessel before you went into the Tomb of Giants. I figured you wouldn't have gone in before you did that. Did you beat Anor Londo? I made the same mistake you did, though. Went all the way in. Died a million times. Got to the boss and realized I couldn't get past the light. I was so pissed. Luckily I had already gotten the Lordvessel and could warp out. I just didn't know I needed to talk to that rabbit thing after I got it.

Yeah but I thought there would be some other way to progress past it, most areas have more than one exit, I didn't expect it to be a complete dead end. Had a really hard time getting out of there but at least I got  a ton of items. This game should provide some form of orientation, I don't know what the lordvessel is or how and where to obtain it, I was trying to play without guides to avoid spoilers but now I'm doing some research before entering new areas. I appreciate what they were trying to do with the open world approach but I'm starting to think that demon's souls is the better game.

[Jonathan Ingram]

And you think they'd stop at Soul Level 200-some?

Past a certain point the stat gain becomes so abysmal that the SL requirements for PvP become much less strict and you`re no longer forced to only play against players who are in the same ballpark SL-wise as your player. It`s been confirmed by the players who`ve hit the SL ceiling that it`s possible to invade(and be invaded) the players who are hundreds of levels lower than you.

Not every glitch user would want to go for SL710 either. Even with a Soul of Great Hero you`ll still need to keep the square button pressed for hours and the benefits are not obvious.

This games got me thinking in what if From Software makes another one of these in a couple of years more, and maybe for the next generation of consoles. Anyone here that has played both games want more of this style of RPG? Or you guys feel that with Dark Souls it was more than enough?

For me, I feel more than satisfied with Dark Souls. I can't see that in the future I would want to play a game like this again for the sake of my sanity.

You`re making it sound like these games are torture :)
Sure I would like to see more of this type of games. Only hopefully whatever From does next, it won`t be as much of a technical mess as Dark Souls. I didn`t find DkS hard, but I raged quite a bit at the unbelievably shitty framerate and constant input lag.

I was trying to play without guides to avoid spoilers

Spoilers? I learned more about the world and the characters from item descriptions than anything else :) I don`t think there`s anything at all that can amount to being a spoiler for this game. I could tell you right here and now who the final boss is and describe the two "endings" and it still wouldn`t be a spoiler.

[CDFN]

I was trying to play without guides to avoid spoilers

Spoilers? I learned more about the world and the characters from item descriptions than anything else :) I don`t think there`s anything at all that can amount to being a spoiler for this game. I could tell you right here and now who the final boss is and describe the two "endings" and it still wouldn`t be a spoiler.

I mean locations and bosses, not the story. When I played demon's souls I had seen half of the bosses in videos and guides which sucked, I like to go in without knowing what to expect, then if I get stuck I'll check a guide. If you already saw the boss before actually walking into the boss room yourself, it really destroys the whole effect.

Anyway, finally explored blighttown, 5-2 was by far the worst level in demon's, not sure why they decided to create another one just like it. This one isn't as bad but still...
People weren't kidding about the frame-rate.

[TiamatNM]

Horror story time!!!

so Bed of Chaos....I get to the heart inside right...and I swing my blade in a horizontal slash and it goes right over it so I slash again and hit, but at the same time a fire column kills me in one hit.  YOU DIED > YOU DEFEATED > GOT LORD SOUL and I got sent back to bonfire.   Then I was thinking "hey does that mean I don't get any souls for beating the boss?  maybe they got added to my bloodstain?"  so I go back and i see my bloodstain in distance in the room and......I fail the jump and slide off the branch to my death.  So I have no idea if the boss reward was in my bloodstain or not.  -___-

[Fadedsun]

As if Gravelord Nito wasn't annoying enough, I have three skeletons annoying me the whole time while I fight him.

Demon's Souls was much better with the fact that they gave you your soul pile outside the fog if died in a boss fight. Every time I died all my humanity and souls are in the boss den. What the hell good does that do me? I can't summon anyone to help me! I want to finish this game already.

[Eusis]

I swore that stuff was in the boss arenas for Demon's Souls too, and anyways you can just use a homeward bone (or the spell homeward) to bail out. Also, just use a Divine Sword at the start of that fight, and they'll stay dead for the rest of it.

[Yggdrasil]

I can't summon anyone to help me! I want to finish this game already.

In the Tombs? Is pretty weird to find a summon sign there, in all the hours I've played I have just saw one and I even put my sign there and I waited for a while (in the first bonfire if I remember correctly) but I didn't got summoned. Black Phantoms love that place though... hell, I got invaded yesterday there by a random Black Phantom asshole that used the Ring of Fog, I didn't even had the desire to fight against him because of the goddamn ring. The only way I could find for now to get rid off of those people is using the Wrath of the Gods miracle.

[Eusis]

The only way I could find for now to get rid off of those people is using the Wrath of the Gods miracle.

The homing spells work too, and in some ways it's not as great of an advantage as you'd expect. I got it since I had no need for a skull lantern after getting Cast Light, yet more often than not I get trounced anyway when using it. But it probably depends on the weapons used too, I wouldn't see fighting them with a spear as pleasant, but swords shouldn't be too bad. You can also go practice on the invisible thief in the forest.

[CDFN]

I swore that stuff was in the boss arenas for Demon's Souls too

It was.