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Congratulations to Andrew Barker! RPGfan Editor of the Year and now Chief News Editor!
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« Reply #7305 on: February 27, 2014, 12:08:09 AM »

Gat Damn, chapter 4 of Telltale's The Walking Dead.  Wow.  Hell of a setup.  I'm glad I've been spoiled in a way (I saw a few gaming news headlines when they revealed the main character of Season 2).  That spoiler is comforting.  THAT character survives to the next part. 
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mecharobot
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« Reply #7306 on: February 27, 2014, 12:15:07 AM »

Feminists have the inherent ability to suck the joy out of everything. People believing they are on a some kind of crusade are just not fun. I do search for things with female leads myself, though. However I don't have any kind of warped criteria of the ultimate gender neutral super woman (The Boss?). I just find them slightly more fun and lively than most of their male counterparts. I play games in order to enjoy myself, not in order to feel justified. And as much I like characters like Kenshiro, it is more about half parodical cheesefest and certainly doesn't make me feel like I'm somehow empowered as a male. Empowering stories are stories about success and effort, a sense of personal growth, which doesn't necessarily mean eliminating your enemies in 700 ways.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about this subject that is discussed at least a million times over. Now waiting for my Tales of Symphonia Chronicles copy to arrive, hopefully by friday or I'll have a boring weekend.
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« Reply #7307 on: February 27, 2014, 01:00:21 AM »

I finished Deadly Premonition last night.

That ending.......and that last boss is crazy ass crazy. Right Zach?
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Dice
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« Reply #7308 on: February 27, 2014, 02:34:51 AM »

Feminists have the inherent ability to suck the joy out of everything. People believing they are on a some kind of crusade are just not fun. I do search for things with female leads myself, though. However I don't have any kind of warped criteria of the ultimate gender neutral super woman (The Boss?). I just find them slightly more fun and lively than most of their male counterparts. I play games in order to enjoy myself, not in order to feel justified. And as much I like characters like Kenshiro, it is more about half parodical cheesefest and certainly doesn't make me feel like I'm somehow empowered as a male. Empowering stories are stories about success and effort, a sense of personal growth, which doesn't necessarily mean eliminating your enemies in 700 ways.


Dear sir,
You've missed the entire point of feminism. 

But more than that I'm wonder what specifically you're targeting about what's been said.

Do you think I'd be here if I were trying to suck the joy out of gaming?  I've got 9,000 posts on you that say I've talked a great deal about games here at RPGfan, so I'm not averse of livid at the state of gaming -- I enjoy them a lot and have been gaming since before I could walk.  And most games I play has a male lead and I'm not trying to suck the joy out of them or to suck the joy from gaming.  I love a male lead as much as I'd like a female one -- it's about how the role itself is played.  I love clothes and makeup so I doubt I'd be burning bras in front of parliament any time soon either.  But I got into the discussion because someone brought up Other M which, in my opinion (and many others) their portrayal of the titular character felt different (ie; less independent and more stereotypically 'girly') than what the series has led us to believe.

Please try to reverse roles here.  It's not necessarily a matter of "gender" as much as "portrayal" that bothers me.
Such as Samus' role in Other M as a "whiny, codependent dishrag" to Marcus Phoenix (GoW) who probably snorts testosterone when he isn't on screen.


So to say "It's how we're built" is incredibly misogynistic and reifies a lot of negative gender norms about women and their place with men (please don't use an anecdote to reflect greater masses; I'm glad your friend is a "powerful lady" to you, but I don't need to hear that it's innate that she turns into from a "lioness" into a "labradoodle" for her husband).  And you're also giving few options for how we should "do it" otherwise.


Sorry if it came out wrong, but you completely misunderstood that anecdote by projecting a gender bias onto it. My point was that people are inconsistent, not archetypal.  Even strong PEOPLE, male, female, transgender, asexual, etc. have frailties. It has nothing to do with gender.  Badass tough guy types who have penises are just as frail in some respects.  We're built that way.

I'll just say this: gender behavior is determined socially. While hormones affect emotion, the assumption that men and women are a certain way or behave a certain way in relation to each other is negated just by looking at the prevailing reversals taking place in society today. 
The only differenes between male and female are physical; the rest is learned.

Also, I was never discussing the subjective effects of a female badass--I don't deny that importance to female gamers. But I still qualify gender as irrelevent to the games themselves pre-story.  Samus' vagina didn't contribute to the gameplay any more than Mario's penis. Even in plot driven stories, gender can be easily interchanged, because behavior is not correlate to sex. Gender roles are perceived, not innate.


I'm sorry for my misunderstands and appreciate the feedback and response.
I agree with all of it up until the last point.  Samus being a girl was a pretty big deal when the series was new (I actually hate that they've taken away from the "surprise" and "mystery" since is so much more of a 'matter of fact' these days... before it was "hard to find" images of her without her gear, while today it's everywhere); and even now being able to pick a gender for a character (Mass Effect, Pokemon, whatever else) still arouses quite a bit of attention.  I also get a bit bothered that women can't be as marketable... Maybe not bothered, but it does make me pretty sad because I think of myself as the "leading lady" of my own life.

I think the point is where on a scale of Masculine---Feminine, it sucks when any character swings *completely* to one side (like I mentioned above with MOM:Samus and Marcus).  This is becoming rarer, but it's not completely absent (nor do I expect it will be).

I *hated* the Samus in Other M because it took what I liked about early Samus and changed it to something I never saw (like a movie being different from the book version of something).  One of the offences here is that the cutscenes were simply too long and too boring.  For her, silence was golden to the "myth" that was Samus' past than some turgid chronicle of what she felt every moment she felt it.  Her crew didn't help much either.

But I'm not upset if a "girly character" is required in other instances.
Estelle from Tales of Vesperia is literally dressed head-to-toe in pink and is both lady-like, adorable, and pretty clueless; but I love her for being smart and sweet. 
One of Lenneth's main goals (from Valkyrie Profile) is to kill the gods and reunite/save her first love (in this case, I don't think succumbing to her emotions of "love" made her a weak character)
Kainé from NieR sported an extraordinary and really ridiculous-looking outfit... but her characterization was more about attitude than sex-appeal (which, after hearing her potty-mouth, was probably a second-thought)

Oh snap... forgot to respond to this one:

That's what everybody thought Skyward Sword was going to be, before it turned out to be a WiiMotion+ demo. Sure it had its moments, and introduced the Stamina Gauge for aLBW to make better use of, but the progression, the overworld obstacle course, and the general lack of variety really held it back.


Anyways, finally finished The Legend of Zelda Heroes: Trails in the Sky: First Chapter. Overall, a by-the-numbers affair with its greatest asset being the sheer amount of fleshing out of its setting and general world building it does over the game. Its kinda amusing to take in just how much it focuses on this aspect, until the final dungeon, where it goes full on JRPG (like suddenly, you go from penny pinching means such as completing guild requests, subsisting on food items instead of general purpose healing items, and saving up enough Septh to purchase the latest Quartz, to swimming in Mira, stuffing your cheeks in high end general purpose healing items since only the very best food items can barely keep up, and everybody's bringing in their own Quartz to fulfill any need you might have with your party loadout, and then there's FC's final boss and its three forms). Now to join the 'waiting for Second Chapter' club (and to start, I'll load up another game in my PSP backlog).

Glad you liked Trails for what's it's worth.  Definitely one of those titles where Falcom took what it does well and did it to perfection.  

I always felt weird about the "final dungeon" and I think you're spot-on why.  I did catch that while the whole game was pretty much about a coup d'etat, the endgame turns into a good ol' save the world romp (but I like how you attached it as symptomatic of JRPGs in general xD )

Stupid fact: I loved cooking because the SFX sounded so delicious

@Clueless  How/why did you fall asleep during a game? xD  Work late?  
I don't think I've ever dozed off in front of something but I'd love to see it happen.
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« Reply #7309 on: February 27, 2014, 02:57:00 AM »

This is getting a little too "political" for my tastes, but I think the idea of feminism has morphed into something vicious.  The radicals and media portrayal have turned a fair and equal idea into something ridiculous.  I don't see much of a point in debating it because most of the time those involved are not referring to the same definitions and ideas.

On topic, finally back to progressing through Bravely Default.
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« Reply #7310 on: February 27, 2014, 03:14:46 AM »

I'll just say I liked Samus best when she was still a mystery. What kind of woman she was underneath that armour didn't matter as much as me wanting to know more, but having to do with just a few glimpses. That, to me, made Samus special. With Other M they took away the mystery and she'll never get it back :(

Anyway, playing Toukiden. I had actually read a review before hearing I had to review this, which isn't helping me right now. Not because I'm too well aware of someone else's opinion, but because I kinda read some of the comment section and was reminded of how elitist some of those huntergame fans can me. "Oh, you didn't finish all the hundreds of missions? You didn't even bother to sink 200 hours into the import, like I did? Obviously your opinion is invalid." Now I feel a bit insecure. I put in 5+ hours a day for the pas four days, trying all the different weapons and both offline and online missions, and I think I can play some more before the deadline, but it feels like it'll never be enough. If I divide what I'm paid for this job by the number of hours I've poured into the game and the review, my hourly wage would be like €1,42. Minimum wage is €8,57.
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« Reply #7311 on: February 27, 2014, 06:43:01 AM »

*sigh* Great I missed the feminism debate for the most part? Dang it, I got a minor in sociology because I took so many classes to learn more about the various nuances of gender.

Oh well, I've been playing more of The Witcher, and I am seriously getting annoyed at this game. Oddly enough, I am noticing that a lot of the things that are bugging me about this game are things which were frequently cited as problems in Dragon Age 2 such as recycled environments, seemingly endless enemy reinforcements on occasion, and I'm sure there is more. Mind you, I had no problem with these things in DA2, so I don't know why they are bugging me in this game. Also, I am really hating travelling in this game. Really not finding anything particularly good about the game either. Oh well, I am going to finish it up and I'll give Witcher 2 a try at some point since I bought it on Steam also.

Edit: Okay this golem fight is stupid, I'm standing outside of the triangle of lightning things and I'm the one who gets shocked while the golem which is taller than me and standing inside of the triangle does not. UGH.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 06:54:43 AM by Ranadiel » Logged
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« Reply #7312 on: February 27, 2014, 08:23:18 AM »

Just started chapter 4 of Bravely Default. I'm enjoying it, but good grief can we have something interesting happen in the plot please? Chasing crystals has gotten stale. I also hate the at the end of every dungeon the boss talks your ear off for 10 minutes before you get to fight them... I JUST WANT TO BASH YOUR HEAD IN STOP TALKING. /endrant
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« Reply #7313 on: February 27, 2014, 10:52:44 AM »

Ranadiel -  I've never played The Witcher, as I could never get it to run on my PC.  But I did play The Witcher 2 and loved that game.  I loved it so much that The Witcher 3 is my most anticipated game of next year and I don't even plan on owning a ps4 anytime soon.

Dice - Falling asleep during gaming is nothing new to me.  I work evening shift for 10.5 hrs/day.  So by the time I come home, surf the Internet and get ready for bed it is usually 1-ish.  It can be later if I catch up on tv.   Playing a handheld while lying in bed, it is easy to doze off.  I've dropped the DS/3DS on my face several times.  Thank goodness the PSP is light.  When playing a console game it can be even worse.  Trying to find a save spot while falling asleep is very difficult.  Simple maps become labyrinths.  When I do find a save point, I often save multiple times since I seriously can't remember if I saved the moment before.  You are missing out Dice.  It adds a whole new layer of challenge. 
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« Reply #7314 on: February 27, 2014, 10:59:30 AM »

\ When I do find a save point, I often save multiple times since I seriously can't remember if I saved the moment before.

I have this experience even when I'm not tired. >_>
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Blace
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« Reply #7315 on: February 27, 2014, 12:21:06 PM »


Dice - Falling asleep during gaming is nothing new to me.  I work evening shift for 10.5 hrs/day.  So by the time I come home, surf the Internet and get ready for bed it is usually 1-ish.  It can be later if I catch up on tv.   Playing a handheld while lying in bed, it is easy to doze off.  I've dropped the DS/3DS on my face several times.  Thank goodness the PSP is light.  When playing a console game it can be even worse.  Trying to find a save spot while falling asleep is very difficult.  Simple maps become labyrinths.  When I do find a save point, I often save multiple times since I seriously can't remember if I saved the moment before.  You are missing out Dice.  It adds a whole new layer of challenge. 

You totally nailed trying to play a game while falling asleep. I have seriously fallen asleep and woke up at like 3 AM right in front of a save point and hope that I saved so all that added time isn't on there only to find that I did not... I have also experienced these labyrinths while trying to find a save point while sleepy. My head tends to add like huge monsters and such to it as well and I have actually like jumped up and scared my fiance once or twice because they tend to enter my dreams too.
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« Reply #7316 on: February 27, 2014, 12:54:31 PM »

Front Mission Evolved
I'm not getting the hate. Yeah it's not a tactical RPG with a deep story, but it's still a decent mecha action game. A little more freedom and some RPG elements would have been nice though; it's admittedly inferior to Gun Hazard.
Also, it needs more Amy. mmmmmmmm

Feminists have the inherent ability to suck the joy out of everything. People believing they are on a some kind of crusade are just not fun. I do search for things with female leads myself, though. However I don't have any kind of warped criteria of the ultimate gender neutral super woman (The Boss?). I just find them slightly more fun and lively than most of their male counterparts. I play games in order to enjoy myself, not in order to feel justified. And as much I like characters like Kenshiro, it is more about half parodical cheesefest and certainly doesn't make me feel like I'm somehow empowered as a male. Empowering stories are stories about success and effort, a sense of personal growth, which doesn't necessarily mean eliminating your enemies in 700 ways.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about this subject that is discussed at least a million times over. Now waiting for my Tales of Symphonia Chronicles copy to arrive, hopefully by friday or I'll have a boring weekend.

*backs away slowly*
Thanks. I was feeling lonely on my island, touting equality like a crazy person.
Not all feminists are bad--I've been called one myself ;D--but as with any group, those who bark the loudest are overcompensating for feelings of inadequacy they erroniously attribute to physiology. As Nietzsche pointed out, those who feel inferior want to take from those they consider strong.

My friend, who has a PhD in sociology and a utuerus, and minored in feminist studies, has said this about it (verbatim quote ripped from message)

Quote
"The problem is the modern women's movement is dominated by angry spiteful women who hate men either because they are 1) lesbians 2) Bad experiences 3) extremely unattractive. What this means is that the issues they are fighting for have nothing to do with the ones that really matter to getting women ahead in the workplace or in societal hierarchy. Their goal is payback and retribution and punishment. Its not about increasing womens access or power in the workplace , its about making mens share smaller. The goal should be in uplifting women and not tearing everyone else down to their level. Ofcourse this is also what goes on in minority rights groups too."


before it was "hard to find" images of her without her gear
Exactly. Her 8-bit uterus was never displayed in game either. She could have been a gender neutral cyborg (like Motoko Kusanagi). The extent of the importance of her gender was limited to -after the game- seeing that she had long hair and maybe breasts.
If that's enough to identify with a character, okay. Personally, I'm more discerning, and obviously don't stress gender any more than I stress skin color.

*sigh* Great I missed the feminism debate for the most part? Dang it, I got a minor in sociology because I took so many classes to learn more about the various nuances of gender.
I envy you for missing it.
It boils down to:
"sexism is bad"
"sexism is important"
"an (imaginary) uterus doesn't make bad writing worse any more than it makes humans worse."
"You're a misogynist."

Quote
falling asleep while gaming
On one of my insomnia sprees, after like three days without sleep, I nodded off while playing Ys IV and dreamed I was in the game. Complete immersion for what must have been at least a minute; came out of the hallucination and was still playing.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 12:56:30 PM by Ikusagami » Logged
Aeolus
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« Reply #7317 on: February 27, 2014, 01:01:47 PM »

Quote
*four pages of gender debates*

My god. What have I done.
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« Reply #7318 on: February 27, 2014, 01:03:51 PM »

So I was playing Wild ARMS 2nd Ignition the other day and enjoyed it.
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« Reply #7319 on: February 27, 2014, 01:17:59 PM »

So I was playing Wild ARMS 2nd Ignition the other day and enjoyed it.
I hope this doesn't spark anything, but I played it just last month and the localization killed it for me. Everything about the game was great, but the dialogue was so stilted and often nonsensical (with people even speaking in the wrong tense sometimes) I had to keep taking breaks from it. It sucks such a great game got such lazy incompetent treatment.


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