Author Topic: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?

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Ramza

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Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« on: March 14, 2011, 02:17:35 PM »
I beat Ghost Trick this morning. I absolutely loved it. Yes, even the ending. My perspective may be tinted by rose-colored lenses (I'm in a pretty good mood presently), but seriously, I thought this game was genius.

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I had a pretty good feeling you were actually the cat since the first time I saw him walk in the junkyard.
I was reading over an old thread on this board, the whole Keiji Inafune "Japan sucks at making games" spiel. We all know how he quit Capcom recently, right in the middle of his own revealing of MML3. Which is bonkers. But whatever.

What makes me laugh is that Inafune said this when he himself was executive producer on Ghost Trick, and probably all other games designed by Shu Takumi.

Compare Shu Takumi's games to Western equivalents ... if you can find them. In my mind, Shu Takumi resurrected graphic adventures and also took them to new heights. The Ace Attorney series alone is proof of that. But Takumi-san is willing to experiment. A Japan-only release called "Kabu Trader Shun" had to do with the stock market. And then he did "Ghost Trick," which was all about manipulating inanimate objects to save people who had recently perished either in murders or freak accidents. Conceptually it was brilliant. The animation was refreshing (it's like HD Out of This World). And the puzzles were always hard, but never like "OMFG I'm going to tear my hair out!" -- I never had to go to GameFAQs for Ghost Trick, whereas I *did* have to for the final cases in Phoenix Wright 1 and 3.

I just think this is a really refreshing game and certainly one of the better graphic adventure titles of the last few years.

So here's a question for anyone else who's played the game: did you like it? Is it *better* than the courtroom-drama formula of the Ace Attorney series? And most importantly, is this a stand-alone title or do you think there will be a sequel?

Talk to me, peoples.

Gen Eric Gui

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 05:26:15 PM »
Ghost Trick was amazing.  Best DS game I've played in a long time; I think it was actually more fun and entertaining overall than 999.

But better than Ace Attorney?  Hard to say.  They're pretty even in my book, Ace Attorney has a lot going for it, especially since it has 5 games to it's name now, which is a lot of room for emotional attachments to form.  But you're also correct in that Ghost Trick's puzzles were a lot better balanced then Ace Attorney's final moments, in pretty much all the games.  It's really hard to say which I prefer overall.

I want to say I hope there's a sequel, but I don't think they can do much more with that world.  They need to do something else with those mechanics, though.

supersonic

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 06:11:33 PM »
I agree that Ghost Trick was quite brilliant. In general, I think that the Ace Attorney characters are *slightly* better, although I enjoyed the puzzles more in Ghost Trick (especially when they started mixing it up after you could control
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Missile ). Can't see how they could do a sequel with the same characters, but I agree with Gen Eric Gui that the mechanics are too good not to be used in the future.

The sad thing is that apparently it didn't sell very well at all in Japan...not sure about the US figures, but I wouldn't expect them to be mind blowing either.

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2011, 07:37:13 PM »
I'm on the other side of the fence.  I thought Ghost Trick *was* better than Ace Attorney.  The game doesn't have the same history with the characters; but after a while the mere "ridiculous" quality of some of the characters felt childish and predictable.  I thought the game doesn't even make sense at times (at least Ghost Trick represents itself as "fiction", AA is in a "human" world though).

I thought Ghost Trick *was* genius, it made you think way more and got to the point much faster (I haaated how long searching for evidence would take, only to have a trial rife with purjury [why is no one punished?!?!], inconsistencies, plot holes, and usually some reaallly stretched scenarios).  I respected how *every* loose end was tied up in GT, and represents a dying/faded genre: the mystery.

I hope there's a sequel.  But since AA takes itself on, literally, a "case by case" basis, Ghost Trick was a beginning and an end - so not sure where a part 2 could fit in.  But I'd hope for one.  New AA installments don't excite me anymore (and Miles Edgeworth's spinoff doesn't do a thing for me either; I thought the quality was especially a step-back to Apollo Justice).

I only wish word of mouth could have helped this game.  It was brilliant. 
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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 12:15:13 AM »
I need to play a game like this or 999


I'm pretty much fed up and bored w/ traditional type RPGs, esp stuff like DQ or FF. As much as I appreciate the difficulty and gameplay of Strange Journey I just don't feel like putting up with that.

I think this visual novel/puzzle type games are the future for my handheld playing. That or more actiony based, like Ys.

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 12:19:04 AM »
I need to play a game like this or 999


I'm pretty much fed up and bored w/ traditional type RPGs, esp stuff like DQ or FF. As much as I appreciate the difficulty and gameplay of Strange Journey I just don't feel like putting up with that.

I think this visual novel/puzzle type games are the future for my handheld playing. That or more actiony based, like Ys.

I essentially took the same route you did.  Turn-based needs some reeaaal innovation to hold my attention now a days.  And the only way I like visual novels is if they're clever, well-written, or yeah, have good puzzles (love a good puzzle).  I don't understand Japan's fixation on them otherwise.
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Yoda

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 12:41:46 AM »
I need to play a game like this or 999


I'm pretty much fed up and bored w/ traditional type RPGs, esp stuff like DQ or FF. As much as I appreciate the difficulty and gameplay of Strange Journey I just don't feel like putting up with that.

I think this visual novel/puzzle type games are the future for my handheld playing. That or more actiony based, like Ys.

I essentially took the same route you did.  Turn-based needs some reeaaal innovation to hold my attention now a days.  And the only way I like visual novels is if they're clever, well-written, or yeah, have good puzzles (love a good puzzle).  I don't understand Japan's fixation on them otherwise.

Agreed. At this point if I'm going to focus on a few missed classics, or replay a few favorites.



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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 09:55:03 AM »
It was fantastic, but I wouldn't compare it to AA. It's totally different.

I still loved every moment, especially the animation.

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 01:15:22 PM »
Sequel, no. Spin-Off, yes. I think the series' next game needs to be to Ghost Trick what Edgeworth is to Phoenix Wright. Technically the same thing but from another perspective. With but a few exceptions most of the loose threads were tied in Ghost Trick and I feel the characters, especially the main character, would be "forced" if shoved into the spotlight of another main story.

However if the next story were told via a new protagonist with slightly different mechanics (like "Objection!" vs "Eureka!" if you follow the metaphor) with the old guard making minor appearances; that would be the way to go.

As for "is it better"? *shrugs* Each have their own appeals. Apples to Oranges apply here as they're both fruit in the end (supernatural-flavored fiction).
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 01:16:59 PM by ZeronHitaro »

Ramza

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 05:18:08 PM »
Thanks for the feedback, all.

I think Zeron might have hit the nail on the head: not an exact sequel w/ same characters, but a spin-off that uses the same game mechanics. Really, really good stuff from Shu Takumi. Love that guy.

So... I actually just went from Ghost Trick to 999. Last night I got what I think you would call the "C" Ending:

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Clover killed me with a hatchet.
Surprisingly addictive game. I love the pseudo-science mythical stuff, like the crystalization of glycerin and EDT. :)

Pat

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 07:00:50 PM »
I think that's the shortest of all the endings - I'm pretty sure the game goes on for quite a bit longer in a few of the other endings.


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« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 03:05:35 AM by insertnamehere »

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 02:31:49 AM »
Eh, going by what was posted he had a very strong case for why he didn't like it, at least without diving into spoilers. And while it's actually not a bad idea to play it right after 999, I nevertheless felt that 999 had a narrative I was much more satisfied with.

ZeronHitaro

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 03:41:56 AM »
Actually it sounds like the reviewer didn't pay attention to the game and just crapped out a review to earn his paycheck. Some of his key criticisms are misleading, if not outright ill-informed.

Sissel falls flat as a hero...

An objective statement; personally I found him rather interesting because laid back characters appeal to me more than the "genki" variety or the "Rawr smash!" archetypes we see all too often. Without taking opinions on archetypes into consideration though and judging the writing by quality value alone; I think there's little room to argue against Sissel serving as an effective protagonist within the Anti-Hero/Hero border zone.

The story uses convenient amnesia as a constant crutch...

Outright wrong. The amnesia element is only used primarily straight in the main character. Every where else it's played for laughs. Heck Ghost Trick should receive an award for being one of the few games to have a clever, and brilliant reason for the amnesia cliche.
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After all it's not so much "amnesia" as it is mistaken identity. Sissel can't "remember" his past because he's trying to remember the past of someone who isn't him; kinda hard to do. XD
...and a series of predictable twists deflate the overall mystery.

I call outright BS on this statement. Sure Ghost Trick isn't any Citizen Kane but the twists aren't "that" predictable. Heck I'm a rather big fan of Sci-Fi/Occult/Fantasy style stories that play with elements like this and even I didn't see some of the twists coming (although each one has a cleverly placed clue you can spot in hindsight that makes no sense without context). So unless you've totally saturated your life with these story elements or are psychic; the story will take you by surprise at least once.

His case seems rather shaky to me. *shrugs* Then again I'm more than open to admitting I have a bias. (And his points about the rigidity of the puzzles are valid.)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 03:49:32 AM by ZeronHitaro »

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Re: Ghost Trick -- compare to Ace Attorney! Sequel-worthy?
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 04:07:39 AM »
It's possible he just burnt himself on the game by reviewing it.  Probably just didn't see it for what it was, I've seen the frustrations of the puzzles pointed out a lot.  I think some people didn't like having to go through entire sequences over again because they missed one step.  That being said, I loved Ghost Trick.  The game did something different for the graphic adventure, but I think I enjoyed the Ace Attorney games a little more.   That's no doubt because I'm so attached to that cast.  And I suppose that's why it'd be hard to top the Ace Attorney games with a spin-off - because I think you'd need an entirely new cast.  Ace Attorney benefits from you really getting to know characters through the course of a couple games.  I also think the gameplay formula would be hard to make feel new.  Also, they'd have to invent another idea to explain people's powers.  I think Ghost Trick succeeded because it took you by surprise; I really think them making another would be a challenge, but I'd be interested to see what they came up with.
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