Author Topic: jrpg hate in america.

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Aeolus

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2011, 04:08:50 AM »
Ah. I remember the good old days when FFX first came out and everyone referred to him as to looking way too much like Meg Ryan.

And now that I think about it Hope was probably the stealth MC of FFXIII. Not-Cloud may have gotten top billing, but Hope was the Tidus/Vaan incarnate disguised as a side character. Notice how much time he spends with Not-Cloud much like Chad and Alys of PS4 (and really, all incarnations of the MC/Mentor relationship) except in this case Hope never gets the opportunity to take over for Not-Cloud. My guess is that Not-Cloud will die shortly into FFXIII2 and Hope will finally assume his rightful place as the game's Real MC.


Bullshit aside though, the issue is complicated for a number of reasons, but to boil it down into a short post that I can get out quickly and without confusing the forum goers of this site (because I can get really fucking confusing at times) is that the combination of the fallout from the PS2 era, MMOs, and the utter lack of quality meshed with the blind drive to turn JRPGs into semi-interactive movies. The PS2 era saw a huge boom of JRPGs, many of which are semi decent at best, but were considered to be visual tour de forces thanks to the power of the system versus the cost to develop on it. Thanks to the increased potential of the latest generation and thus cost as well as not quite having a clear surefire frontrunner console like the PS2, many developers sought to find cheaper alternatives like the DS, the PSP, or even Mobile Phones which have developed to the point of being able to play SuperNES and PSX era ports. Further they're still pulling the tricks and bad habits they learned back during the PS2 era like unnecessarily dividing one game into 3 or 4, reducing world building to employing an encyclopedia and turning the rest of it into bland hallways, or still following Squeenix's example of making JRPGs when they really haven't done anything worth mimicking. Additionally MMOs like WoW take a tremendous amount of available playtime for many people cutting into playtime for JRPGs and considering the social aspects of an MMO over the stodgy, recycled, plots of today's JRPGs there isn't even a competition. And finally, to alienate the core JRPG crowd they're moving further and further away from what little perceived control players might of had in the past (in all honesty they haven't lost much at all, if anything, it's just that they aren't even bothering to keep up the charade anymore) to make even more rigid and forced gameplay segments so that developers can focus on writing their stories that they were inspired to write based on their favorite day-time soaps' episode or whatever. They make the games based on how they want them to play out and further remove any sense of chance or variance for their stories to go wrong.
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Alisha

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2011, 04:22:27 AM »
this. this is why.
unconscious homophobia much? Lady Gaga would not be pleased >:(

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Yggdrasil

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2011, 05:20:45 AM »
It's not homophobia, it's bad character design. And the fact that those characters are usually considered "annoying" by the majority doesn't help either.

I like Hope from Final Fantasy XIII though, is not a bad character (unlike Serah... or Snow to some degree).

Desert Walker

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2011, 01:14:07 PM »
I feel that the issue of devaluing the DS (and to a lesser extent, the PSP) which was mentioned earlier is an important piece of the puzzle.  Many people -- myself included until I got back into gaming recently -- tend to think of a portable gaming console as being, by nature, for on-the-go casual gaming.  They view it as being there for Brain Age, Picross, the latest handheld Mario, perhaps Tetris or a Sonic port.  (Please note that this is NOT a criticism of any of the titles I listed.)  Certainly not for a 30 + hour RPG.  It doesn't help matters that the DS has the dual screen/stylus feature which gives some outsiders a 'blackberry' vibe which cements their feeling that is an exclusively casual console.  (Again, not a criticism.)  It's hard for cthem to accept the idea that high-quality, massive, innovative RPGs are coming out on a device that does not hook up to a big screen TV.  And, it seems that in the current generation, this is where most of the great JRPGs are going, for a number of reasons listed earlier in the thread.  If the great JRPGs are going to handheld consoles which many people categorically refuse to acknowledge as a 'proper' place for RPGs and the consoles get mediocrities (with a few great games here and there) that sector of the gaming community is going to conclude that the (good) JRPG has gone the way of the dodo.

I don't understand the whole "androgynous characters" criticism. I know it's a matter of personal taste, but it just seems like a dumb reason to bash a game. I don't see how it detracts from the gameplay or storytelling.

In principle, I agree with this statement.  In practice, I think this viewpoint is somewhat naive.  The character design and art style of a game can, and will be used to judge the game, and it isn't limited to RPGs.  As an example:  Back in high school a JRPG obsessed friend of mine asked me what game I was playing.  At the time, it was Maximo: Ghosts to Glory.  He immediately started making fun of me, insisting that it was a children's game, citing that he had seen the box for the game at the rental store and that the cartoony art style and character design of the game was proof of this.  I repeatedly insisted that it was a challenging platformer that was clearly meant for a teenage and up crowd, because a child wouldn't be able to handle the level of difficulty it presented.  The mocking continued and he eventually agreed to rent the game for play over a weekend on the grounds that I would pay for the rental if it was a children's game.  He came back on Monday bitching about how I caused him to rent a game that was kicking his ass.  For another, more widespread example, think of the reaction to Wind Waker before (and shortly after) it came out.  In any case, his attitude represents that of a large number of gamers.  In an ideal world most gamers would make educated purchases wherein they spent time reading reviews for (or renting) games prior to buying them and didn't form prejudices based on the character design or art style of a game.  In reality,  many are more likely to look at a commercial for a game, or look at the box, or screenshots and say "Dude, that's bad-ass!" or, as you noted, "Dude, that's gay!" and make their decisions based on that.  Hell, look at how many copies CoD: Black Ops has sold!

Just for the record, I do not think that disliking androgynous character designs is intrinsically linked with homophobia, but I do feel that there is a common link between the two among average joe 'GTA *insert newest sequel* IS THE BEST GAME EVER' games.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 01:17:35 PM by Desert Walker »

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2011, 01:20:59 PM »
Never knew America hated JRPGs.

I live in a culture where JRPGs and animu are highly embraced (games like Persona, BlazBlue, Final Fantasy, and Kingdom Hearts).
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Parn

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2011, 01:54:07 PM »
more copies of ffxiii sold in america than in japan

japan hates jrpgs

Yoda

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2011, 01:58:44 PM »
I have a ton of friends that are gamers. My cousin Pete was huge into jrpgs before the days of WoW. He even has a ton of import psx titles.

Some of my earliest gaming memories are playing phantasy star on sms w/ him.


Most of my other buddies aren't into jrpgs except for a few exceptions but they don't hate them or hate on me for having an interest in them.

I think they stray away from them because of the time commitment some of the games demand. They probably also feel that the genre has become stagnant, and from a certain point of view that's valid. A lot of them enjoyed jrpgs in the PS2 generation but after all the games that system had to offer this group of consoles has been sort of a let down.

So in summary, they probably don't want to play 40-60hour games that have (in their minds) changed little and offer the same ole same ole


My buddy does love him some demon's souls though.  

TiamatNM

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2011, 02:13:45 PM »
It's not homophobia, it's bad character design.

It really is.

Parn

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2011, 02:16:44 PM »
you guys are homophobes



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cj_iwakura

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2011, 02:30:22 PM »
AEDIS ECLIPSE, MOTHERFUCKERS.
play it

Quote
Developer:    Idea Factory

How about no.

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Raze

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2011, 02:36:34 PM »
Now there's plenty of manly men in jrpgs. Like this badass.


ZeronHitaro

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2011, 02:59:02 PM »
AEDIS ECLIPSE, MOTHERFUCKERS.
play it

Quote
Developer:    Idea Factory

How about no.

How about...Firestone? :-P Just because a company makes a mistake here or there doesn't mean you should avoid them the rest of your days. There are some good games IF has had a hand in.

Vaporeon

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2011, 03:13:21 PM »
In an ideal world most gamers would make educated purchases wherein they spent time reading reviews for (or renting) games prior to buying them and didn't form prejudices based on the character design or art style of a game.  In reality,  many are more likely to look at a commercial for a game, or look at the box, or screenshots and say "Dude, that's bad-ass!" or, as you noted, "Dude, that's gay!" and make their decisions based on that.  Hell, look at how many copies CoD: Black Ops has sold!

I agree. My point wasn't to dispute the notion that a prevalent amount of gamers will dismiss or bash games for insensible reasons, but to criticize the fact that they do.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 03:21:42 PM by Vaporeon »

Vaporeon

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2011, 03:17:27 PM »
oops posting error

Vanguard

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Re: jrpg hate in america.
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2011, 03:21:57 PM »
I am America, and I hate JRPGs.
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