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Author Topic: George Hotz (geohot) VS Sony.  (Read 20329 times)
John
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« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2011, 10:46:46 PM »

you up your games to $60 and you didnt see this coming? for shame sony.

Wait, you're blaming Sony for the price headed to $60?  Are you daft?  I don't really blame Microsoft or Sony for a price increase with the cost of development, but you simply can't ignore the fact that Microsoft led with the increase a full year before the PS3 saw release.

That being said, D. tnegA brings up a perfectly valid point: Cartridge games were expensive.  Virtua Racing for the Genesis was $90.  In 1994.
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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2011, 10:54:26 PM »

What's with all the really shitty topics lately? I mean there aren't more than usual, I'm just not the one causing them.

Stop harshing my grills, dawgs.
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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2011, 10:55:57 PM »

you up your games to $60 and you didnt see this coming? for shame sony.

Wait, you're blaming Sony for the price headed to $60?  Are you daft?  I don't really blame Microsoft or Sony for a price increase with the cost of development, but you simply can't ignore the fact that Microsoft led with the increase a full year before the PS3 saw release.

That being said, D. tnegA brings up a perfectly valid point: Cartridge games were expensive.  Virtua Racing for the Genesis was $90.  In 1994.
If anything, slap ms for that trick, at least sony uses a more expensive format for publishing said games.

Ahh, the good ole days of begging my parents to buy that one new game...then I'd beat it in 8 days and my parents would scream at me for not playing it anymore. Good ole memories.
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2011, 10:57:47 PM »

What's with all the really shitty topics lately? I mean there aren't more than usual, I'm just not the one causing them.

Stop harshing my grills, dawgs.

How so?  I find there's an interesting balance between the heavy shit and the amount of dicking around we do here (for the latter, look at topics made by Yoda).  Go start your own otherwise, you'd probably be good for it.

Haha and yeah I miss bugging my parents for game money -- saying "I'll SWEEP the WHOLE HOUSE!!!" and all that.
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« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2011, 05:30:57 AM »

Around here prices are roughly the same they were in the 16 bit days, long before sony entered the market. I don't know why anyone would make that connection. Hell, the  most expensive game I've ever seen is virtua racing for the mega drive followed by sonic 3 for the same system. Both are sega games.
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« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2011, 06:28:25 AM »

maybe it seems this way because when i was a kid we rented pretty much any new game we played and when i first got to the point where i could buy my own games i bought a lot of used games for a while but even still i dont remember many dc games costing more than $50 and i also remember buying a lot for $40. also i think the most expensive game was either phantasy star 4 or that one xbox game with the hugeass controller. note that all 3 games in question have a legitimate reason for costing so much. huge prehiperal and special chips.
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« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2011, 03:52:00 PM »

I posted this on Kotaku and I'll post it here:

It's simultaneously shocking and disgusting how deep the advanced corporate brainwashing of a generation of gamers has become. They are so dependant on a corporation that engineers their source of entertainment that they are willing to damn anybody who said corporation deems an 'enemy.' Many are claiming that the EULA makes Sony's decisions defensible.

As a mental exercise, let us assume that there is a television manufacturer who decided to update their televisions with a firmware update that disabled the ability to play video game consoles on said television. Users are required to download said firmware or they wouldn't be able to watch television programs on it. An individual releases a hack that allows people to hook up their systems to the television and still retain TV program functionality. As a side effect, other individuals find a way to use this hack to get free cable. Who is accountable here? Would the excuse, "video games are for losers, only a few people use their TV for that anyway" fly? Certainly not.

If that scenario is a bit too theoretical, consider this: if Sony had removed the ability to play Blu Ray movies, or even games themselves, would people still allow Sony to hide behind the EULA shield? The fact that OtherOS is defined by some as an extraneous addition to the console is not the point of the matter; some can just as easily say "I bought the PS3 just to play games," does it mean Sony is allowed to strip out any features other than playing games? Where does the line end? At this point, the EULA seems to be little more than an excuse for corporations to do whatever they want with hardware bought and paid for by consumers. It's little more than a leash and collar for consumers.

As another matter, so many here are ready to lynch and/or crucify Geohotz for 'being/looking/sounding like a douche.' Let's be honest, this is petty, immature, and idiotic. Wanting someone's life to be ruined because "he's a douche" regardless of if he did or did not do anything wrong is a fucking appalling position to take. Again, where do you draw the line? I'm a doctor - am I allowed to let a patient die because he hacked his PS3, or because I just don't like the look of him? Would I be hailed as a hero by some if I did? That would be an utterly disgusting world to live in.

It sets a dangerous precedent and paints a dire future where juries pass verdicts not because of evidence, but because of irrational and vapid reactions. A future where individuals are in the corporation's pockets due to being their consumers - "your honor, we the jury find the defendant guilty because he looks like a douche and once totally haX0rd a Xbox."

Sometimes we need to accept that there are no proverbial good guys and bad guys in a conflict. Sometimes it's just about different ideologies (corporate control vs. consumer rights). Perhaps some people's minds have been decayed so much that by this time they can only see things in black and white. I'll be honest - I don't like Geohotz. I think he is, in many ways, a douche. I will defend the industry at times where I think consumers are acting overly entitled - Xbox Live fees, paid DLC, and yes, even EULAs, when appropriate. But in this case it is not appropriate and I am not ready to see a young man have his life ruined because of my personal feelings against him.

Perhaps those who are so ready to condemn him would be more appreciative of his situation if they are ever accused of a crime they did not commit, and people want THEM to be thrown in jail because they look like 'a douche' or are 'fugly ass nerds.' Here, Geohotz is not a criminal, neither is wanting to leave for Spring Break (a trip he purportedly planned four months in advance) a crime. I expect sycophants to be all over my post telling me off, but in truth, the more you support corporations doing this, the more restricted we as consumers will be in the future. We should be standing in solidarity against an entity that seeks to demean us and our rights, but instead we are successfully divided due to loyalty to a faceless corporation that seeks to oppress and dehumanize us more and more as time wears on. One only needs to look at XCP and Aibopet debacles to see where Sony's heading. It is not a road we can coexist with.

Thank you for this post, Leyviur.  It's the most sensible and well-written response that I've seen yet in regards to this subject.  You echo my thoughts exactly but expressed it better than I could.
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2011, 03:50:38 AM »

I'm surprised these homebrewers and hackers aren't invited to help the development teams.  Clearly they have a decent grasp of what they're doing, and they're usually doing things that the players want.  

Bad example, but the fact that jailbreakers figured out how to give ordinary iPhone users a wallpaper image over a year before it was a feature made for an official Apple Update (which actually only worked for people with a certain iPhone hardware version, unlike the Jailbreak which worked for all) was an absolute grievance.

Too busy too type more. WISH ME LUCK ON PAPER

I got my first industry job by doing GBC Homebrew.  But my latest homebrew didn't help at all :-/
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2011, 05:02:32 AM »

Hotz saying that he didn't know about SCEA's existence, funny as it may be, is natural. What amazes me is peole on gaf saying that they believe it might actually be true and that it would be perfectly normal for someone like him not to know that.
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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2011, 07:01:53 AM »

Unfortunately, the outcome of this is we're all going to lose. Games/consoles will be more expensive. New laws will be written to punish people who modify their consoles for whatever reason.

I've only followed this a little bit, so I might have some of the details mixed up. My question is, did he actually do anything illegal? I thought Sony was trying to claim he violated copyright law, which, from what I've read, doesn't seem to be the case. Figuring out the formula of the key to unlock the PS3 and sharing it is not theft of intellectual property. For example, if I figure out the Coca-Cola recipe and share it, I haven't actually stolen anything or claimed it as my own.

However, when up against these really wealthy corporations, they can sue and sue to the point where the defendant runs out of money and is forced to settle. My guess is that this is how the case will end.

I don't know much regarding video game piracy, but I know a lot about music piracy. The record industry blamed their declining sales on pirates for nearly 30 years (it started with the "Home Taping is Killing Music" campaign in the 80s). The reality is that the structure of the industry itself makes it almost impossible to turn a profit on any artist. I'm not sure if the situation is analogous though.

At any rate, video game technology has progressed to the point where people want to be able to modify their consoles to do things other than play games. While Sony may win this battle, they are fighting a losing war. If my analogy to the music industry has any merit, the RIAA stopped filing piracy lawsuits in 2008.

Footnote: If this doesn't make any sense or isn't clear, I apologize. I've been up since 4AM (after going to sleep at midnight) coughing up Christmas coloured mucus. Too much information. I know.
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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2011, 08:37:02 AM »

« On January 11, 2011, Sony sued Hotz and others (including members of fail0verflow[1]) on 8 claims
    * Violating the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. § 1201)
    * Violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. § 1030)
    * Contributory copyright infringement (17 U.S.C. § 501)
    * Violating California Comprehensive Computer Data Access and Fraud Act (§ 502)
    * Breach of Contract (related to the PlayStation Network User Agreement)
    * Tortious interference
    * Misappropriation
    * Trespass »

Right now, all Sony is trying to do is move the case to California. They pretty much can't do anything to him in any other state, only California because the copyright laws there have been beefed up and the judges are know to support the industry more in cases like these.

« the court issued an approval that Sony's lawyers were allowed access to all the IP addresses of all the people who visited geohot's blog, commenters to his YouTube, and all information associated with his Twitter account for the purposes of establishing jurisdiction. Sony said the server logs would demonstrate that many of those who downloaded Hotz’s hack reside in Northern California — thus making San Francisco a proper venue for the case. »

« SCEA will be able to examine PayPal donations made to Hotz--better known as "Geohot"--between January 1, 2009, and February 1, 2011, to see if some of the funds received came from Northern California. If so, Hotz would be forced to fight his case in that district, rather than in his home state of New Jersey. »

« Sony's claims that Hotz has a PSN account under the name "Blickmaniac," » (The forum signature included the word "Geohot" - if he agreed to the PSN TOS, he can be trialled in California since the servers are there. )
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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2011, 12:04:37 PM »

Hotz saying that he didn't know about SCEA's existence, funny as it may be, is natural. What amazes me is peole on gaf saying that they believe it might actually be true and that it would be perfectly normal for someone like him not to know that.

He's not a gamer, he's a hacker.  Most folk in general(even gamers) don't know of SCEA, and surprisingly looking at all legal material on the PS3 links it to SCEI, thus I see his point.
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2011, 11:41:57 PM »

What's with all the really shitty topics lately? I mean there aren't more than usual, I'm just not the one causing them.

Stop harshing my grills, dawgs.

How so?  I find there's an interesting balance between the heavy shit and the amount of dicking around we do here (for the latter, look at topics made by Yoda).  Go start your own otherwise, you'd probably be good for it.

Haha and yeah I miss bugging my parents for game money -- saying "I'll SWEEP the WHOLE HOUSE!!!" and all that.

Want to clean mine?
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« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2011, 01:42:31 PM »

And in comes the bullshit....

http://playstationlifestyle.net/2011/04/04/anonymous-gets-serious-attacks-sony-employees/

Anonymous is now getting stupid and fucking with sony to make a point...that point being that when being sued by a money grubbing corporation, it's okay to essentially commit acts of (cyber) terrorism on people. Hence leading to my fully biased opinion of for every one cool hacker that just wants to see what something can do when pushed to its true potential, there's an army of douchebags who just want to make someone's life a miserable hell.
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« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2011, 01:58:12 PM »

Anonymous has always been stupid.  It's just a collection of 4chan /b/tards.
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