Author Topic: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?

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CDFN

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Here's an interesting article about the capture the babe (from Duke Nukem Forever's MP) issue, as well the industry's relation with it's female audience in general:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-26-slapped-down-article

I would like some feedback about this. What do the women on this forum think when they see gamestation's slogan "Cheaper than your girlfriend"?
Or when the people calling the shots in the big publishers say "There's no point thinking about catering to a female audience with games like shooters or RPGs - it's just not their thing."?
Or when in a game like DNF you have to "capture the babe", slapping her into submission as you carry her to the base?

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Kstar

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 09:26:34 AM »
This was a very good read.  Thank you for linking it.  I am going through a tough time as a female reviewer right now and this no doubt had a lot about what I've been speaking out about in the industry.  

Capture the Babe mode, the concept itself doesn't bother me, I know Duke Nukem is an immature franchise; however, the ass smacking thing I can't get behind and I won't.  I feel like we should be past all of this to "sell" games.  This also isn't new to the industry - the Atari 2600 had Custer's Revenge where you walk across a field to rape an Indian girl.  But lately, I'm a little jaded.  I know progress/change in the industry takes time, so when I see positive or negative aspects in games for females, I note them.  

As a reviewer, it has been interesting, my reviews up until recently have never had a strong female voice in them.  I think it has a lot to do with the content I've played recently, but it's something that people fight me over constantly in feedback.  I struggle, too, because I don't want to alienate part of my audience.  It's a struggle I've had with myself and writing lately.

 It feels like it's fine to be a woman in the industry, just don't speak out about it and keep quiet.  I'm to a point where I know looking the other way is never going to accomplish anything.  I've said quite a bit, I know I *can't* change the industry, but it doesn't mean I have to support the belittling stuff in it.  At the end of the day, I have to feel good about the content I'm putting my name on.  I think progress can happen - it will just be in baby steps.  I'm glad there are more female journalists and gamers who aren't afraid to let themselves be known.  
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Adapheon

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 09:26:54 AM »
I'm not a woman but I think the Capture the Babe mode is awesome for Duke Nukem...any other game I would think is in bad taste but for Duke it's just something that fits so naturally with the character and the world the game is made around. Personally I find any argument stating that any sort of behaviour in media reinforces ideas to be ridiculous. . Of course abuse still happens now, but it is widely not accepted and has reached a point where no one should be seeing Duke slap a girl on the ass and go "oh, it is okay for me to punch my girlfriend in the face"

The gamestation slogan is demeaning though, it's not an edgy slogan it's just stupid.

Sagacious-T

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 09:32:53 AM »
I spank my girlfriend all the time. She loves it.

Starmongoose

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 09:48:00 AM »
I honestly expect this from Duke Nukem, I just don't want to it to spill over into anything else.


EDIT: I should say, that doesn't mean I'm okay with this Save the Babe business, or at least the ass slapping bit. I would rather that not be the case, I chalk it up as a minus 1 against the game itself and I know a lot of people do. If someone chalks it up as a positive thing, I would be utterly confused how they justify that.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 09:58:34 AM by Starmongoose »


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Alisha

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 11:30:59 AM »
i too expect this from duke nukem but if it was a new IP i wouldnt be nearly as forgiving. i do think however its not fair to group a female gamers as just female gamers. on a similar note it pisses me off when a game has a female character that only serves and background support as opposed to having no females at all.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 11:40:31 AM by Alisha »

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Fei

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 11:40:12 AM »


Tomara

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 12:13:36 PM »
Quote
What do the women on this forum think when they see gamestation's slogan "Cheaper than your girlfriend"?

'You do not want me to spend my money in your store, so I'm going elsewhere.'

If most of your customers are males between the ages 15 and 25, then yeah, it makes sense to make sure your store appeals to them. Scaring off anyone who isn't a heterosexual male age 15-25 is a pretty crappy business strategy though.

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Or when the people calling the shots in the big publishers say "There's no point thinking about catering to a female audience with games like shooters or RPGs - it's just not their thing."?

That bothers me in the same way as Gamestation's slogan. What's wrong with me spending money on the games you make? You don't have to cater to me, just don't make the game unappealing. Put in that metal bikini babe if you want, but also offer alternatives.


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Or when in a game like DNF you have to "capture the babe", slapping her into submission as you carry her to the base?

On one hand it doesn't really bother me. Duke Nukum is a silly, immature game and taking even one polygon of it seriously is a waste of time. On the other hand, there are still plenty of men who do take it seriously, kind of. To them it's normal to treat women like objects. It bothers me that the developer would include that mode knowing that appeals to people like that.

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It feels like it's fine to be a woman in the industry, just don't speak out about it and keep quiet.

Depends on who you work for. [N]Gamer only has two female writers (out of sixteen), but we don't feel out place there.But I wouldn't want to work for Power Unlimited. Most of it's readers are teenaged boys and we would feel like the uninvited girls in the boys' treehouse there.

Conventions can be quite awkward. Last time the higher-ups decided we needed boothbabes, so there were boothbabes at our booth. Most of our visitors weren't even interested in them, so they just kind of sat there being pretty and bored. It felt so weird. I was there without getting paid for it, contributing to our booth by talking with and playing against readers. They didn't do anything other than wear a short skirt and wear pancake make-up and the higher-ups considered them to bemore important than me. It made me wonder, would they pay me if I went there dressed like a whore?

We're thinking of hiring some good cosplayers instead next time. Playing a game of Super Smash Brothers Brawl against Link and taking a picture with him afterwards sounds like a lot more fun than looking at bored boothbabes.

CDFN

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 01:53:58 PM »

Conventions can be quite awkward. Last time the higher-ups decided we needed boothbabes, so there were boothbabes at our booth. Most of our visitors weren't even interested in them, so they just kind of sat there being pretty and bored. It felt so weird. I was there without getting paid for it, contributing to our booth by talking with and playing against readers. They didn't do anything other than wear a short skirt and wear pancake make-up and the higher-ups considered them to bemore important than me. It made me wonder, would they pay me if I went there dressed like a whore?

We're thinking of hiring some good cosplayers instead next time. Playing a game of Super Smash Brothers Brawl against Link and taking a picture with him afterwards sounds like a lot more fun than looking at bored boothbabes.

That's some food for thought right there.

As far as DNF is concerned, I have to admit that I chuckled when I first heard about it but I understand why it would upset people. If I were in the developer's shoes I wouldn't have included it. We say that it's ok because it's duke but at the end of the day that doesn't really make it any more legitimate.
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Starmongoose

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 01:57:17 PM »
It doesn't make it any more legitimate, but should it surprise you when the stupid kid in your class does something stupid?


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Annubis

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 02:27:14 PM »
Now, you shouldn't blame what stupid people do on the cause of it when 99.9% of the population didn't do anything stupid or else you'd generalize over-protectiveness.
That's like banning peanut butter sandwich throughout every school in the country because 0.01% of the people allergic to peanuts are lethally allergic which within that 0.01% only about 0.4% can react lethally by smell.
Oh wait...

Fei

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2011, 02:52:21 PM »
Is the woman being taken against her will?  I can see that being the upsetting thing.  A playful ass smack is extremely minor when it comes to sexual activity between consenting couples.

CDFN

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2011, 02:57:45 PM »
Is the woman being taken against her will?  I can see that being the upsetting thing.  A playful ass smack is extremely minor when it comes to sexual activity between consenting couples.

Randy Pitchford: “Pretty much what you’d expect to see from a CFT-style mode, with one small touch: the “Babe” will sometimes freak out while you’re carrying her (somewhat understandable we’d say) at which point you have to hit a button to gently give her a reassuring slap.”

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/21/duke-nukem-forever-multiplayer-replaces-flag-with-capturable-slappable-women/
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Annubis

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Re: Female gamers, is this industry treating you as well as you deserve?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2011, 03:06:23 PM »
It's either slap on the butt or alien rape.
Let the girl choose.

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