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Author Topic: The Merged Final Fantasy XIII-2 Thread  (Read 109822 times)
Prime Mover
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« Reply #915 on: January 16, 2012, 08:48:23 PM »

Yeah, I'm not including RPGs with non-existant stories, because there are quite a few of those, and you can't fault a game for something that it doesn't even try to have.

I would disagree with Fallout 3, completely. When we talk "story" in RPGs, we're usually talking about the all-encompassing narrative elements, this extends to setting, style, plot, dialog, characters, etc. Fallout 3 is probably best known for it's setting, style, and fun non-linear dialog. I wouldn't say it's particularly lauded for it's gameplay, though that's not bad. And I would hardly say that there's even anything particularly bad about the story, besides the ending. All of the other games in that list I've heard positive comments regarding some section of the narrative, even if the main focus is on gameplay.
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« Reply #916 on: January 16, 2012, 09:35:06 PM »

Wasn't F3's ending 'fixed' when they
Code:
retconned it through DLC
? I haven't had a chance to snag that GotY version yet and see for myself.
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Eusis
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« Reply #917 on: January 16, 2012, 09:43:32 PM »

I would disagree with Fallout 3, completely.

That IS highlighting the other angle here, it's largely subjective whether a narrative is good or not, and admittedly Fallout 3 isn't THAT bad, just poorly thought out at several points. Though I think it's less that a good story's essential and more that if the story is really, REALLY bad and prevalent enough to be an issue it is symptomatic of a poorly developed game period. tri-Ace are probably the closest at being an out and out exception, and even then SO3 isn't as highly regarded as SO2 in regards to gameplay, and SO4 even less so than 2/3.

Quote
All of the other games in that list I've heard positive comments regarding some section of the narrative, even if the main focus is on gameplay.

Well, that was what I was getting at there. I can think of plenty of RPGs where story doesn't matter that much and are very highly praised, so a good story period is hardly essential, but it IS harder to think of highly praised ones in spite of a widely hated story. Actually, despite stating tri-Ace above FFX-2 and some other series entires probably are the best examples there, they STILL get rave reviews and millions sold, so either a bad story isn't that big of a deal or they manage to do it well enough that ENOUGH people like it, with everyone else either doing their best to deal with it to get at the gameplay or straight up abandoning it.

Wasn't F3's ending 'fixed' when they retconned it through DLC? I haven't had a chance to snag that GotY version yet and see for myself.

Snipping the spoiler out there since 1. It's not a very serious spoiler given it's actively ADVERTISED as doing that, and 2. I don't care to type up a response in a spoiler box for something that inconsequential.

Anyways, no, it did about as much good as a bandaid over a knife stab, the only actual fix it did was remove one really dumb logic flaw. It's more that A LOT of people wanted it to be like Oblivion where they could keep adventuring post-ending, and that honestly the ending really wasn't the kind of thing to justify locking you out of that unlike, say, quite a few JRPG endings would've been actually. I think adopting that as the philosophy for ALL their games would be bad given it could limit your story telling potential significantly and it's easy enough to just give you a save just before the point of no return, but in this case they may as well have.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:53:33 PM by Eusis » Logged
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« Reply #918 on: January 17, 2012, 03:10:28 AM »

Games like F3 and Oblivion/Skyrim aren't about the story at all, but more about the exploration and immersion, in my opinion. Well I never cared about the story in any of those games and I still loved them and the story is usually an important point for me.

On another note, 15 days before we can get our hands on FFXIII-2. Not that I actually care that much about reviews, but ive seen 4 notes so far on the game and it got : 40/40 from Famitsu, as almost everybody here already know, 9/10 on OXM (Official Xbox Magazine), 8/10 on POM (Playstation Official Magazine) and 8/10 on Game Informer.

As for the NA pre-orders :

290,000 PS3 copies and less than 90,000 for the X360.

Thats it for your daily stats hehe.
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Eusis
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« Reply #919 on: January 17, 2012, 04:14:14 AM »

Thats it for your daily stats hehe.

Please don't go posting VGChartz numbers, they make them all up.

As for Bethesda's games: I WOULD say story's a key focus, especially since most hand made quests are all little storylines, and not just collecting a bunch of crap to turn in.
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« Reply #920 on: January 17, 2012, 08:33:32 AM »

Have to agree, F3 and Oblivion had terrible plots. I honestly can't remember anything about the latter's since it was so incredibly bland I didn't even bother trying to complete it and instead focused on the side quests. I liked both these games because of the loot whoring. Really, in F3 nothing was more satisfying than going into a random house and finding a treasure trove of stims, ammo, guns, etc. It was the satisfaction of finding these that kept me playing.
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« Reply #921 on: January 17, 2012, 08:46:24 AM »

I'm kinda disappointed so many of you are on a plot-basis for game enjoyment.  As far as I'm concerned, there are too many bad game plots to really focus on just the story.  While I agree a good plot is best for the overall enjoyment, it's not what makes it if, like a "game" is, it's not fun to play. 

I hope you guys aren't walking into 13-2 expecting a good plot, I think that fact ran off as soon as they said the plot would shift from some muddled-fantasy story to an anything-goes, "because time travel did-it", plot.  Furthermore, it clearly shows a lack of focus, dedication, and even love for their initial "world" and setting.
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« Reply #922 on: January 17, 2012, 01:08:23 PM »

Have to agree, F3 and Oblivion had terrible plots. I honestly can't remember anything about the latter's since it was so incredibly bland I didn't even bother trying to complete it and instead focused on the side quests. I liked both these games because of the loot whoring. Really, in F3 nothing was more satisfying than going into a random house and finding a treasure trove of stims, ammo, guns, etc. It was the satisfaction of finding these that kept me playing.

If I remember correctly Oblivion's plot basically consisted of turning yourself into such a badass that you get dibs on the front row seats to the battle between whatever God allegory and whatever Satan allegory they used in that game.
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« Reply #923 on: January 17, 2012, 03:44:17 PM »

Grrrr, people are defining "story" too narrowly, IMO. The #1 praise I hear about most games is "immersion", or "style", or "environment". I consider that more connected to "story" than "gameplay", since gameplay refers mostly to the battle system, skill system, etc.

MOST RPGs have TERRIBLE stories
Many RPGs have great atmosphere/environments that make up for the lack of good story
some RPGs have good gameplay.

I should ammend my original comment, and clarify that you cannot have a highly regarded RPG without EITHER a good story or a good immersive environment. That no game I can think of is highly regarded for its gameplay ALONE.

For instance, most people here (myself included) agree that FFXIIIs story was shit. However, I think there's a lot more variance about how the game felt. Quite a few of us really liked the experience and style of the gameworld, regardless of the story. Many of us are looking forward to FFXIII-2 because it seems to expand even more on those aspects. It's story is most likely going to be canned crap, and it's gameplay will be more or less the same. But if it can really pull off the environment and atmosphere, than I think it will be a very enjoyable game.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:47:16 PM by Prime Mover » Logged


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« Reply #924 on: January 17, 2012, 07:46:03 PM »

That no game I can think of is highly regarded for its gameplay ALONE.

Nethack qualifies, given Roguelikes helped create the genre in the first place. Story's an excuse to go into a randomly generated dungeon, and everything in it is generic fantasy stuff represented by ascii characters so you can't even pull out the graphics card (or the music one for that matter). Though honestly I don't think you can easily pinpoint why a game is GOOD in many cases. Oblivion came close to that example too, but the base gameplay is kind of limp too actually compared to alternatives and the graphics were PRETTY GOOD for its time, and would still stand out if character modeling were less hideous, so that's more a case where the sum is greater than the individual parts, and similar applies to other Bethesda RPGs too.
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« Reply #925 on: January 24, 2012, 09:17:09 PM »

So I downloaded the demo and attempted to play it.  My impressions:

After Liara Lightning says a few lines, the camera zooms in to what I guess is some kind of portal.  The first impression I get of my new adventuring team is what I guess was supposed to be a totally sugoi "kupo" from the moogle now emerging from said portal, but sounded more like "uguuuu~" instead.  Serah and male-Yuna say a couple of lines about Cocoon while doing awkward Japanese poses that keep me from taking their games and anime seriously.  They then scamper off followed by their stupid moogle uttering another "uguuuu~" once more for good measure.

Then I turned the game off.  I'll wait for Mass Effect 3, thanks.
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« Reply #926 on: January 24, 2012, 09:22:02 PM »

Yeah, the core game's undeniably better by merit of not just being a hallway with a bunch of battles, but the presentation is... uhh...

Man, you didn't even get to Chocolina.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 09:28:12 PM by Eusis » Logged
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« Reply #927 on: January 24, 2012, 09:35:26 PM »

I don't even want to know.
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« Reply #928 on: January 24, 2012, 09:55:00 PM »

I don't even want to know.
Oh cmon, she's no worse than any other mascot in a video game. At least she's a chocobo cosplay and not a sexy moogle.....god that would be weird.
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« Reply #929 on: January 24, 2012, 09:59:55 PM »

Oh cmon, she's no worse than any other mascot in a video game. At least she's a chocobo cosplay and not a sexy moogle.....god that would be weird.

Who is your merchant, meaning like it or not you'll have to keep interacting with her. Her voice is also kinda grating.
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