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Author Topic: Are turn-based console RPGs officially dead?  (Read 5992 times)
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2013, 06:10:59 PM »

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Don't get me started on "old school" RPGs where buffs, debuffs, and status effects don't work on bosses.  Why should they get special treatment?

I'd love to get into the psychology of WHY game Japanese devs thought this was a good idea up until like 2000ish. I think it's just ineptitude more than anything, though?
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Dincrest
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« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2013, 06:52:50 PM »

I'll agree with that.  I mean, a lot of 8-bit NES games were difficult simply because devs hadn't quite mastered the concept of balance.  So, yeah, I'll buy that stuff got better as time went on and devs became more savvy. 

Sometimes I wonder if the reason RPGs are easier these days is because we've gotten better at them over the years and cut our teeth on the tough ones, but some of the old-school stuff will be just as tough now as an expert as it was when I was a novice.  Then again, a lot of that is probably due to cheapness owing to now quite having that concept of balance mastered. 

Of course, I'm just talking stream of consciousness. 
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Klyde Chroma
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« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2013, 07:51:42 PM »

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We may disagree about breath of fire Mesh

Debuffs and status attacks don't work on bosses in BoF1 or 2, and neither do the undead-targetting spells. This isn't a matter of opinion and it's not something debatable -- this is how the games are programmed. Your only options in boss fights are attacking, using element-appropriate attack magic, or healing. BoF1 has I think four buffs. BoF2 has three, but one of these doesn't work due to a glitch.

I can't see any way that you could approach these games strategically -- you don't have the tools for it.

My original post (days ago) was actually in reference to Breath of Fire 3 (being the most fresh in my mind). Strategic use of formations, character selection and Masters enabled me to breeze through without grinding once.

My recollection of BoF1 and 2 is far too dated to debate anything about those titles. I haven't played either in 10 -15 years or so.

That is why I did not debate your reply to my post in the first place... my fault for not putting a "3" after breath of fire in my original post as I was listing the games I felt illustrated clever mechanics that made gameplay a wee bit more interesting when approached strategically.

Let me also add, I WAS TRYING TO PAY YOU COMPLIMENT (in my last post) MESH!! LoL

Again, that's why I love Megami Tensei games, because buffs, debuffs, status effects, and defending are useful and necessary aspects of battles. 


Having just played persona 2 IS and EP this last year I couldn't agree more. Both titles sport grueling turn-based gameplay that can REALLY be a grind if you don't play methodically. Conversely, exploiting what the game offers in terms of that which can aid you in combat can be really fun. I loved how many options you had as far as battles were concerned and the various ways you could built a killer team via the persona equipped (particularly in EP). Best of all was the demon negotiation which added a whole new layer to the experience with completely different risks and incentives (once again, waaaay better in EP) allowing a player burnt out on combat to progress a bit via an entirely different avenue of gameplay.

The problem with IS and EP to me was that, in spite of the wonderful versatility in combat, things were still very longwinded and "slow" feeling. Not to mention the encounter rate was a wee bit on the high side...
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2013, 08:49:14 PM »

Ooooh. 3 definitely turned around things in a huge way for the series, yeah.

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The problem with IS and EP to me was that, in spite of the wonderful versatility in combat, things were still very longwinded and "slow" feeling.

I think this is because Atlus didn't really figure out dungeon design until SMT3. Or maybe it was the 'rolling combat*' like Phantasy Star 2 had -- the go and pause nature of that made it feel like you were always backtracking turnwise a bit?.

* Look ma I can pretend that people will understand my wonky idiolectal phrases.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2013, 09:22:03 PM »

I recall in EP (and I think in IS) you could turn off battle animations to speed things along.  I kept the animations on, because I felt like without the animations, the mojo was missing from the battles. 

Then again, I played those games long ago (IS on import) so I don't know how the remake handled things.
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Alisha
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« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2013, 12:56:33 AM »

what if we had a turn based rpg where a player could jump in and control the enemies? lotr the third age had something like this.
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Klyde Chroma
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« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2013, 02:51:54 PM »

I recall in EP (and I think in IS) you could turn off battle animations to speed things along.  I kept the animations on, because I felt like without the animations, the mojo was missing from the battles. 

Then again, I played those games long ago (IS on import) so I don't know how the remake handled things.

Man, I can't ever turn off animations.... Even in disgaea, when I watch a terra summon/spell for the zillion-th time and want to tear my hair out over it the animations stay on. Mojo is most certainly lost sir, you are indeed correct. I would like all "skip animation" options to be replaced by "fast forward".
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