Author Topic: Anime/Manga Journal

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Hidoshi

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4575 on: August 09, 2017, 03:00:30 PM »
OK, if we're going to keep talking about this...

I feel like any attempt to define shounen/shoujo/seinen/josei beyond their most general (and literal) categories of being for boys/girls/men/women is doomed to fail.  Because there is a lot of variation within any of these categories, and different magazines even in the same category can have very different styles.

For example, Manga Time Kirara is a seinen magazine.  That's how it's classified and that's the category most of its readership falls into.  But I think you would be hard pressed to find a single series in that magazine that fits Hidoshi's definition of 'seinen' given above.  Manga Time Kirara focuses almost entirely on lighthearted moe stuff, mostly set in high school.  There is some romance, but also a lot of purely slice-of-life comedy style manga.  Probably the most famous manga to come out of it is K-On. 

Yes, K-On is seinen.

Technically it's because we're talking about two different perspectives on the terminology used. Seinen, when used by magazines, tends to mean a demographic. When used by creators, it means a genre. K-On is seinen because it's sold that way, but from a genre perspective it's definitively shoujo.

It's a continuing academic debate which perspective (genre vs demographic) should take precedent, especially as gender roles continue to break down and transform in today's markets. Some things like "BL" are obviously not demographic descriptors (they might fall under Jousei in many cases, but some can also be called Seinen if the demographic is gay), they're predominantly genre-focused, while others like shounen can be used either way.

Kirara is a seinen manga magazine, this is true, but it's a specific kind of seinen, meant to appeal to a subdemographic associated with certain emotional or visual fetishes, for lack of a better term. Conversely, Shounen Jump has featured plenty of non-shounen genre titles  (City Hunter, a decidedly Seinen  genre series comes to mind), but its general demographic is shounen.

Aeolus

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4576 on: August 09, 2017, 05:08:33 PM »
It's not even the necro'ing, I swear those exact same descriptions were originally posted as part of that discussion and they seem to have disappeared.

I had to look and noticed that this thread moves faster than I generally give it credit for. The discussion was on pg 275.

And yeah, at least Hidoshi did a better job at spelling the terms (not that I hadn't already been corrected on my Baka Gaijin misinterpretations six months ago).
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Tomara

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4577 on: August 09, 2017, 05:46:30 PM »
Oh, terminology! I want to add things to this discussion!

Quote
It's a continuing academic debate which perspective (genre vs demographic) should take precedent, especially as gender roles continue to break down and transform in today's markets. Some things like "BL" are obviously not demographic descriptors (they might fall under Jousei in many cases, but some can also be called Seinen if the demographic is gay), they're predominantly genre-focused, while others like shounen can be used either way.

The term BL is normally only used for those magazines featuring male gay romance (and erotica) aimed at a female audience, but not all male gay romance aimed at women is considered BL, because the BL genre tends to follow patterns that are almost as if they're set in stone. Basically, BL is designed to cater to very specific fantasies and generally does not reflect any actual gay experiences. Gay romance and erotic manga aimed at gay men are usually called gaycomi. In Japan, yaoi is pretty much the whole shipping thing. The dojinshi, the fan-art and so on. But over here it's usually taken to mean BL with explicit sex.

The interesting thing about BL is that it's just one link in an evolutionary chain. Soms of the earliest boys love manga ran in regular shojo magazines, and the tone was definitely different from that of modern BL manga. These were often depressing but beautifully drawn tales that ended in tragedy. This subgenre was connected to the tanbi literary genre. And it and its fans found a home in some magazines aimed primarily at gay men. That was in the 70s, early 80s. Things started to change rapidly when shipping and dojinshi became big among female fans, and creators and readers started to look for a creative outlet that was all about happy endings. Erh, quite literally so. That's were BL and yaoi come in.

Of course, the actual gay community wasn't all that happy with being the subject of erotic comics for straight women. A discussion about this appropriation started in the early 90s (around the same time BL really became a thing), and has been going on ever since. Reaction from BL mangaka were and are varied. The "It's just fantasy, we know it's not real!" is a commonly heard defence, but there are also authors we started taking the subject more seriously. That's basically one of the reasons you can now read a cooking manga featuring a gay couple in a seinen magazine. (What did you eat yesterday? offers both insight in what it means to be gay in Japan and offers some pretty handy recipes and cooking tips.)

So, uh, anyway, BL might be more of a genre than a demographic descriptor, it does have a very specific demographic. I think it would be fair to consider BL one of the pillars alongside of kodomo, shonen, shojo etc.

Kevadu

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4578 on: August 09, 2017, 06:08:18 PM »
Technically it's because we're talking about two different perspectives on the terminology used. Seinen, when used by magazines, tends to mean a demographic. When used by creators, it means a genre. K-On is seinen because it's sold that way, but from a genre perspective it's definitively shoujo.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here.  I don't think these labels are genres, nor are they supposed to be genres.  Some people try to use them as such, sure, but that's just misusing the terms.  If we want to talk about genres there are already words for those...thinks like 'action', 'romance', 'comedy', etc...


For example, Manga Time Kirara is a seinen magazine.  That's how it's classified and that's the category most of its readership falls into.  But I think you would be hard pressed to find a single series in that magazine that fits Hidoshi's definition of 'seinen' given above.  Manga Time Kirara focuses almost entirely on lighthearted moe stuff, mostly set in high school.  There is some romance, but also a lot of purely slice-of-life comedy style manga.  Probably the most famous manga to come out of it is K-On. 


Sounds like my kind of magazine considering series I've enjoyed so far include Lucky Star, Love Live, Is the Order a Rabbit?, Little Witch Academia, etc...

I'm a big fan of it myself to be honest.  There are actually several different magazines in the Kirara family but they're all pretty similar.  They're all monthly magazines so I guess that let's them release them at different times during the month.

Some of my favorites from it that haven't been animated include:
Hakoiri Drops
Hajiotsu
Hadi Girl
Tonari no Kashiwagi-san
Bocchi na Bokura no Renai Jijou

Some other notable titles that did get anime adaptions:
Is the Order a Rabbit?
Kin-iro Mosaic
Kanamemo
Doujin Work
A Channel
Hidamari Sketch
Hanayamata
New Game!
K-On, obviously...

So that's stuff to check out.

Dincrest

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4579 on: August 09, 2017, 08:04:00 PM »
K-On! is... an anime I thoroughly enjoyed.  A lot of it reminded me of when I used to play in bands; some of the conversations characters had reminded me of ones I had with bandmates during practice. 
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Starmongoose

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4580 on: August 09, 2017, 08:09:35 PM »
You used to be in a band Neal? ;)


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ironmage

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4581 on: August 09, 2017, 10:30:10 PM »
Does Gamers! have a dub, perchance?
As much as I hate to enable dub-watching in any form, Funimation appears to have Gamers! on SimulDub.  It's about two episodes behind.

Mickeymac92

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4582 on: August 10, 2017, 07:02:28 AM »
^This. In fact...

Does Gamers! have a dub, perchance?

No, it's a simulcast.  I think about the only anime to ever be simulcast with a dub was Space Dandy...

Funimation's been doing "Simuldubs" this year (maybe since last year, I wasn't really paying attention). That's how I've been watching My Hero Academia, actually. Most of their simulcast output from now on will likely be dubbed, albeit a few weeks behind since dubbing takes time.

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Arvis

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4583 on: August 10, 2017, 09:07:40 AM »
Does Gamers! have a dub, perchance?
As much as I hate to enable dub-watching in any form, Funimation appears to have Gamers! on SimulDub.  It's about two episodes behind.

As an avid kdrama watcher, I understand this attitude much more than I ever used to.  There's a sort of purity to subs.

But still, Dubs >>>>>>>>> Subs forever.

Also, thanks.  Can I watch Funimation streaming free with ads, or is it paid subscription only?
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Rook

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4584 on: August 10, 2017, 09:22:34 AM »
Does Gamers! have a dub, perchance?
As much as I hate to enable dub-watching in any form, Funimation appears to have Gamers! on SimulDub.  It's about two episodes behind.

As an avid kdrama watcher, I understand this attitude much more than I ever used to.  There's a sort of purity to subs.

But still, Dubs >>>>>>>>> Subs forever.

Also, thanks.  Can I watch Funimation streaming free with ads, or is it paid subscription only?

No I think Funi is paid only, but its only 5.99/mo or $50/year. It streams on the PC better than CR does but the PS app is a dumpster fire. Hopefully, now that sony owns it that will change. Funi also puts some older series up on youtube (albeit subs).

I did watch the 1st 4 episodes of Gamers! and while its nothing life changing its a fun anime so far.


Mickeymac92

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4585 on: August 10, 2017, 09:54:01 AM »
Actually, the App just updated a day or two ago. But yeah, I honestly was considering using VRV for Funi for a while, since I mostly watch through my PS4 nowadays, and had a ton of problems with it. I'll let you guys know if it's any better now. The iOS app isn't bad, btw.

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Ranadiel

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4586 on: August 10, 2017, 06:30:37 PM »

Funimation's been doing "Simuldubs" this year (maybe since last year, I wasn't really paying attention). That's how I've been watching My Hero Academia, actually. Most of their simulcast output from now on will likely be dubbed, albeit a few weeks behind since dubbing takes time.
I know that they did a "simuldub" with Danganronpa 3, which I believe was last year.


No I think Funi is paid only, but its only 5.99/mo or $50/year. It streams on the PC better than CR does but the PS app is a dumpster fire. Hopefully, now that sony owns it that will change. Funi also puts some older series up on youtube (albeit subs).
Nope Funimation is subscription only for a week (two?) and then is available to free users. Currently episodes 1 and 2 of Gamers are available on Funimation for free users. Due to the delay from dubbing, watching the dub episodes free will put someone three (four?) episodes behind the most recent episode.

Rook

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4587 on: August 10, 2017, 08:27:44 PM »
I did not know that the Planetarian sequel movie was released. So I have something to watch tonight.

Kevadu

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4588 on: August 10, 2017, 09:42:33 PM »
OK, so I didn't know about simuldubs.  I feel silly.

Still wouldn't watch them though...

Aeolus

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Re: Anime/Manga Journal
« Reply #4589 on: August 11, 2017, 04:11:45 AM »

Funimation's been doing "Simuldubs" this year (maybe since last year, I wasn't really paying attention). That's how I've been watching My Hero Academia, actually. Most of their simulcast output from now on will likely be dubbed, albeit a few weeks behind since dubbing takes time.
I know that they did a "simuldub" with Danganronpa 3, which I believe was last year.

They started doing "Simuldubs" back with One Piece around the time the series did its most recent time skip (which was around the time anime was 'getting saved' by Kill la Kill, which was like 2012 or something). They quickly stopped doing that for a while because pirates were getting their hands on the dubs as their distribution methods back then blew monkey chunks, which in turn, got them in trouble with the studio.
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.