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Author Topic: think this has any chance of passing?  (Read 1423 times)
Alisha
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« on: July 03, 2011, 09:04:59 PM »

http://act.demandprogress.org/letter/ten_strikes?akid=700.450896.5hVZPC&rd=1&t=1
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Demon_Princess_Kay
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 01:20:14 AM »

I'd like to think that it wont. Quite honestly I myself don't like signing petitions and stuff against bills like these, because it should be an open and shut case not to pass it. Just like the whole video game violence bill. The day our government allows shit like this to pass is the day I decide to no longer live here.
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Azrael
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 01:35:45 AM »

Well I don't know how much of it I believe, but honestly, I'm always surprised by how easy it is to find music on Youtube posted by people who don't own the copyrights. Say what you want about freedom of speech, Intellectual Property is still Intellectual Property and I do think the people who own the copyrights deserve to have their music protected. The article seems like it goes too far, which is why it seems like bullshit. There are totally better ways of dealing with it than law suits and jail time, and with services like iTunes I'd say that artists are faring better, but they do deserve to fight against piracy.
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Annubis
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 08:03:30 AM »

There are totally better ways of dealing with it than law suits and jail time, and with services like iTunes I'd say that artists are faring better, but they do deserve to fight against piracy.

Exactly, the MPAA and RIAA have never given a single cent to artists. They lobby for laws that just make them richer and reinvest the money into passing more laws or doing more lawsuits for even more money.

Good example here is Netflix... which the lawmakers and ISPs tried sadly to kill so many times.
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/searchengine/index.cfm?page_id=613&action=blog&subaction=viewPost&post_id=16489&blog_id=485
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 08:10:28 AM by Annubis » Logged
Vanguard
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 01:10:42 PM »

I don't want to this to come off as some crazy rant, but the notion of paying for copyrighted material because it supports the individual is nonsense. Using music as an example, depending on whether or not you're on a major or independent label plays a significant role.

If you're on a major label, you don't own the copyrights to your material and you're one of the 95% of acts they sign that fail. This means you, the creator of the work, aren't allowed to play, record, or promote those songs. You probably also owe the record company money for giving you an advance.

If you're on an independent label, things can be a little different. You may or may not own the rights to your recordings. You don't owe the record company much and are on tour a lot. Success at this level often means that fans come to your shows and you make enough money that you don't have to work a 9-5 job, but make roughly the equivalent salary. Failure means working odd jobs while playing music on the side.

Without getting into too many specific numbers (I can if requested), record sales make up a fraction of these scenarios. Regardless of the label, most musicians make their money through touring. The difference is that independent labels don't start by giving you an advance which you are statistically unlikely to be able to pay off.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 01:16:01 PM by Vanguard » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 01:38:36 PM »

Well I don't know how much of it I believe, but honestly, I'm always surprised by how easy it is to find music on Youtube posted by people who don't own the copyrights.

Me too, people even post download links for the mp3 in the description and nobody gives a damn. When music from an unreleased album is leaked, it pops up on youtube right away, you can listen to pretty much any song you can think of on youtube. People just post a pic to fill as the video and then play the song and even link you to a download for the audio file.
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Azrael
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 01:44:11 PM »

That's not really the point. I don't give a shit about record labels, but I still think artists deserve to have their own rights protected. Most independent artists are happy to give away their music as a way of promotion, but the few that don't should be entitled to the same protection as other owners of intellectual property. Like I said there are much better ways of dealing with it than this, and I fully support sampling, but posting up full songs on youtube or other streaming sites so others can listen to them freely is kind of a grey zone. I just don't think people should be entitled to that sort of action. I am well aware of much of the issue surrounding piracy and all that and how it affects artists. Hell I am not even going to sit here and say I don't pirate music, but I can't say I entirely condone it, nor can I say that I would oppose laws that would make it harder to do so.
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Annubis
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 01:50:28 PM »

Oh BTW, this law is so vague, it would also make it illegal to upload videos of you playing video games on Youtube (a la Let's Play). That also includes sites that do review videos or commented playthrough.

http://shoryuken.com/2011/06/29/trolling-the-stream-by-ultradavid/
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Azrael
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2011, 01:55:30 PM »

These laws are always freaking vague. At that level it's certainly crap, but from a realistic standpoint I don't see how it could be enforced.
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Vanguard
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2011, 02:31:31 PM »

That's not really the point. I don't give a shit about record labels, but I still think artists deserve to have their own rights protected. Most independent artists are happy to give away their music as a way of promotion, but the few that don't should be entitled to the same protection as other owners of intellectual property. Like I said there are much better ways of dealing with it than this, and I fully support sampling, but posting up full songs on youtube or other streaming sites so others can listen to them freely is kind of a grey zone. I just don't think people should be entitled to that sort of action. I am well aware of much of the issue surrounding piracy and all that and how it affects artists. Hell I am not even going to sit here and say I don't pirate music, but I can't say I entirely condone it, nor can I say that I would oppose laws that would make it harder to do so.

Look, I'm not saying we're entitled to pirate whatever we want no matter who it affects. What I am saying is that for all the doom and gloom we hear about piracy, there is little to substantiate the claim that it is killing the music industry or negatively affecting artists on any large scale.

I'm also curious about these "better ways" to enforce copyright and intellectual property laws because nothing that's been tried has worked. In 2008, after years of fighting piracy and millions of dollars spent, the RIAA gave up filing lawsuits. The reason? 85% of all music downloads were illegal copies.
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Azrael
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 04:06:32 PM »

I never made that claim that piracy is killing the music industry because I know it's not. And the best way to fight piracy is to remove the incentive to do so. The way the RIAA did things just made people very bitter, but with services like Pandora, iTunes, Last.fm, etc. I think things are getting much better for artists as far as reducing piracy and increasing the income they receive from music purchases. Piracy will never be eliminated but I do feel it has been reduced. And obviously I'm not looking at this from the view of the lawmakers, but more the industry. I meant that there are much better ways that they could deal with piracy.

That said, this law is definitely bullshit, and even if it does pass enforcement will be as big a problem as the RIAA had with all those ridiculous lawsuits they filed.
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Vanguard
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 04:51:57 PM »

And the best way to fight piracy is to remove the incentive to do so.

But how do you do that? The incentive to pirate is that you get what you want for free. Removing the incentive would mean...giving it away for free.

Quote
The way the RIAA did things just made people very bitter, but with services like Pandora, iTunes, Last.fm, etc. I think things are getting much better for artists as far as reducing piracy and increasing the income they receive from music purchases. Piracy will never be eliminated but I do feel it has been reduced.

Are you sure about that? I just did a quick Google search and it came up that in 2008 there were more than 40 billion illegal downloads, which accounted for 95% of all music downloads. I'm sure the numbers fluctuate a little from year to year, but I don't think there has been a sea change regarding the general attitude about piracy in the last two years.

Also, here is a chart which breaks down how much money people make from downloads:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/

Artists aren't making more money from downloads. They're making the same, more or less.

Here is the issue as I see it: people feel okay about piracy because it's not a physical object. Stealing a song or an album is not the same as walking into a record store and stuffing a record in your shirt. Until MP3s become more than data in a computer, people will never think of this as stealing. The biggest incentive to encourage a legitimate purpose seems to be making the physical album desirable again.

That's exactly what's been happening. While it only accounts for a fraction of the industry, vinyl sales have been climbing each year, compared to CD sales, which have been declining. Part of this is because retro is the new cool thing, but also because people want to see liner notes, look at covers, and actually hold the record they're listening to that week.

To return to the topic: yes, this law is stupid. No, I don't think it will pass.
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 04:58:57 PM »

My favourite website for music right now is Bandcamp. Artists themselves get all the profits, you can listen to the whole album for free - and you can pay any price you wish for the album above the minimum price (some smaller artists can't afford to just let people pay $1). All albums also come in a huge amount of file types.

I also hear Turntable.fm is growing in popularity right now - unfortunately I can't get in on that action because I am not in the US.


http://bandcamp.com/
http://turntable.fm/

This is my friend Pam's Bandcamp page, it should let you see what I'm talking about: http://pamshaffer.bandcamp.com/

Edit: If you ask me, the trick will be to make people want to pay for your music. This means that artists need to do it THEMSELVES. No big record label is going to risk a huge marketing campaign on a no-name who makes strange, out-there music. Which is why the current market is saturated in poppy-filler-crap. This is a GOOD thing.

Peoples future has been taken out of the hands of big faceless corporations and back into their own hands. Whether you float or sink is dependent on how much you are putting yourself out there. Trust me, there is a market out there for EVERYONE and catering to a niche market will get you a very VERY loyal fanbase that will look out for you more than any of the fans of these one-hit wonders will.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 05:04:14 PM by Starmongoose » Logged

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Vanguard
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 05:41:00 PM »

I agree 100% Starmongoose. The thing is, whether or not you're completely independent, on a small, but friendly label, or on one of the big ones, the majority of your profit will come from touring. When you take that into consideration, there's really no problem; people will always attend concerts.
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 05:46:41 PM »

Yep, you're right. Selling merch and touring is where the money is at. That may mean you have to tour 10 months out of the year, but you will be doing what you love and making a living. No one says it will be easy, but hey, that's life. People are still in a fantasy world where they think the music industry is just like it was in the 70's. Bad news, it isn't.
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