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Author Topic: the otaku is killing japanese rpgs  (Read 6639 times)
howitis
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« on: July 09, 2011, 11:33:26 PM »

That is the anime nerd.  Well known for not having a girlfriend and escaping through anime/rpgs/memorabilia, ect.  I propose that they, and the industry that has begun to cater to them, is the reason why jrpgs are all but dead (in the west).

there was a time when Jrpgs were known for story telling.  Known for providing a deep and interactive story that could not be found in any other game.  Western rpgs were more about developing your character and making your own story through multiple quests, and side quests.   Jrpgs provided something different.  


Starting with the SNES era Jrpgs like FF2(4),FF3(6), and chrono trigger made a name for themselves, and firmly established the genre on consoles.  In fact at the time we didn't say Japanese rpg.  We said console rpg vs PC rpg.   When FF7 hit we see the peak of Jrpgs in the west as square again moves forward story telling on consoles with movie like cg cinematics, and a deep story many remember and sometimes hate, to this day.

As the PS2/xbox/gamecube era hits we begin to see the reason why Jrpgs are failing, more and more the games begin to use generic anime story lines.  How many games have you played with a quite sensitive girl (possibly child hood friend), spunky mischievous girl, and book smart genius with large glasses and equally large breasts?  i pretty much summed up at least 3 of the characters in every single anime and jrpg released today.   The fact is it hasn't always been this way.  Slowly Japanese game companies have started to cater to what they believe (which is true at this point) their core audience is, the otaku.  Japanese companies are in effect removing themselves from the western market as in the same way they would the japanese market if they began to make all call of duty clones.  Simply put anime is dying in america as well, not that it was ever popular, and the ridiculous cookie cutter characters they use will not be accepted here.  


Jrpgs use to represent the best story telling in gaming, which pushed adult themes not seen here on consoles.  That is no longer case.  Western rpgs like mass effect, SWTOR, Fallout 3, and Oblivion all tell better stories than do Jrpgs, and do it with better mechanics.  THe Japanese game companies seem to be in retreat, and instead make games with cute cartoonish characters almost as if they are for children.  No longer able to compete they will release games catered to an audience no one else can reach.  The otaku.
  
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 01:13:54 AM by howitis » Logged
Alisha
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 12:02:29 AM »

i could flame you but instead im gonna roast some marshmallows on this flame you have started :D damn i wish i had some hershey bars and gram crackers to make some smores =/

without otakus there would be no jrpgs right now.
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Annubis
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 12:08:48 AM »

*popcorn*

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dalucifer0
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 12:13:22 AM »

Well I'm thankful for otakus. We wouldn't have Persona 3 and 4 without them.
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Eusis
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 12:35:38 AM »

To some degree you have the right idea I think, but you're misplacing the blame. Those archetypes you cited? Almost all of those were in Chrono Trigger. The genre has ALWAYS been about anime-style storylines, it just wasn't as apparent until anime became more relevant here and JRPGs hit stronger hardware, and to some degree it's merely reflecting the changes in anime itself. Anyways this is partially due to the rest of the industry adopting either stronger storylines or at least action movie-esque stuff rather than being barebones, and it's not as if PC RPGs were devoid of story. Hell, there were graphic adventures that were more storyline/writing focused than JRPGs were.
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Yggdrasil
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 02:49:29 AM »

Hell, there were graphic adventures that were more storyline/writing focused than JRPGs were.

Thank you! People never remember that graphic adventures games has presented overall better stories than Japanese RPGs most of the time (or I should say all the time?). Every time I read someone saying that JRPGs are all about the story I just shake my head in distress.

I mean, I know there's some exceptions but... seriously?
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Tomara
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 03:03:35 AM »

Quote
The genre has ALWAYS been about anime-style storylines, it just wasn't as apparent until anime became more relevant here and JRPGs hit stronger hardware, and to some degree it's merely reflecting the changes in anime itself.

That, and nowadays we're actually getting some of those otaku-oriented RPGs in English. Which may indicate that the market is growing instead of shrinking. That's not such a bad thing, is it? And if you don't like those games, you can always play something else. To outsiders they're all 'crazy Japanese anime games' anyway :P

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Aeolus
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2011, 04:27:36 AM »

Anime or not, I just wish they'd cut down on the excessive moe-blob sexualization bullshit that's running rampant in anime/JRPGs.
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 04:46:07 AM »

Hell, there were graphic adventures that were more storyline/writing focused than JRPGs were.

Thank you! People never remember that graphic adventures games has presented overall better stories than Japanese RPGs most of the time (or I should say all the time?).

Stories, yes. Dialogue? Definitely not. Well, dialogue is usually rubbish in both genres.
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Eusis
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 05:00:31 AM »

Hell, there were graphic adventures that were more storyline/writing focused than JRPGs were.

Thank you! People never remember that graphic adventures games has presented overall better stories than Japanese RPGs most of the time (or I should say all the time?).

Stories, yes. Dialogue? Definitely not. Well, dialogue is usually rubbish in both genres.

What are you thinking in regards to dialogue? Because at least for comedy writing LucasArts has frequently nailed it.
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Maxximum
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 05:09:49 AM »

jRPGs haven't changed, you just got older.
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Eusis
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2011, 05:18:37 AM »

jRPGs haven't changed, you just got older.

No, it's not just getting older. The presentation level's increased, and while that partially lends to safer stories it also means that all the flaws we could overlook or iron out in our heads when it was just text and sprites/crudely polygonal models are amplified and unable to be ignored when voiced (especially in a language you can understand) and acted out by higher detail models, anime/cartoon-style or realistic. That, and Japanese mannerisms/body language can be jarring to people outside of Japan, and they probably wouldn't have recreated that on weaker technology.
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CDFN
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2011, 06:41:46 AM »

jRPGs haven't changed, you just got older.

No, it's not just getting older. The presentation level's increased, and while that partially lends to safer stories it also means that all the flaws we could overlook or iron out in our heads when it was just text and sprites/crudely polygonal models are amplified and unable to be ignored when voiced (especially in a language you can understand) and acted out by higher detail models, anime/cartoon-style or realistic. That, and Japanese mannerisms/body language can be jarring to people outside of Japan, and they probably wouldn't have recreated that on weaker technology.

Exactly, previously a lot was left to the player's imagination. Now the characters have voices and facial expressions which make bad dialogue stand out a lot more. Combine this with the typical mannerisms Eusis mentioned and you can bet that most lines from those old rpgs you consider storytelling masterpieces would be just as awkward as the dialogue found in current jrpgs.
When a character is nothing but a small sprite with no voice and barely any animation you can get away with a lot. The player "hears" those lines like he wants to hear them.
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hell_snake
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2011, 07:38:42 AM »

Well I'm thankful for otakus. We wouldn't have Persona 3 and 4 without them.

You mean we wouldn't have the dating-sim portion of the games without them.

I agree with howitis to some extent. Japanese RPG devs seem to be stuck in some sort of vacuum that's devoid of any ideas outside of anime tropes.

Still, Japan is bringing us Dark Souls, and already brought us Demon's Souls. There's still hope that, if Dark Souls manages to be a commercial success, we'd see more experiments in the JRPG genre outside of the familiar anime/moe-blob stuff.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 07:40:16 AM by hell_snake » Logged

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CDFN
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2011, 08:08:50 AM »

Well I'm thankful for otakus. We wouldn't have Persona 3 and 4 without them.

You mean we wouldn't have the dating-sim portion of the games without them.

I agree with howitis to some extent. Japanese RPG devs seem to be stuck in some sort of vacuum that's devoid of any ideas outside of anime tropes.

Still, Japan is bringing us Dark Souls, and already brought us Demon's Souls. There's still hope that, if Dark Souls manages to be a commercial success, we'd see more experiments in the JRPG genre outside of the familiar anime/moe-blob stuff.

Well, Demon's Souls was already success and I'm not seeing any experiments.
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