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Author Topic: the otaku is killing japanese rpgs  (Read 6554 times)
Aeolus
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« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2011, 08:42:36 AM »

In reference to the thread's title....Maybe.


Wasn't IV the one where the main character goes from badass Dark Knight to pretty boy Paladin?

It did, but it also featured a gratuitous number of party members getting blown up, drowning, or getting turned to stone with all but one of them getting better after a while.
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lavarock
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« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2011, 11:30:33 AM »

I agree with this.  Unfortunately the anime industry is going through the same thing with more and more massive amount of fanservice.   I don't see the trend reverse neither.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2011, 03:44:46 PM »

In reference to the thread's title....Maybe.

Because when I think otaku, I think rhythm games...wait, no I don't.  Are we just attributing anything we don't like to otaku now?
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Maxximum
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« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2011, 03:46:21 PM »

Unless "otaku" also means "milking a franchise to earn quick cash", then no.
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« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2011, 01:22:58 AM »

i think we also have to keep in mind that in the late 80s and early nineties  anime wasn't about extra cute characters with big boobs chasing around a nerd.  Not that they didn't exist, but they slowly took over anime late 90s and beyond.  Early romance anime like maison ikkoku took realistic characters in funny situations.  It seems like the hits of the 80s and 90s were spammed endlessly by the japanese.  Oh my goddess/Love hina/tenchi/chobits, and a endless list on.   evangelion (sp?) spawned a number of confusing mecha anime.    Dragon ball Z spawned an endless amount of anime about fights and power ups spread over an entire season for one fight were nothing really happens.   

The Japanese story lines are being used over and over again because that is what their otaku audience wants.  I look at it and see the same thing again and again.  The otaku sees it and thinks, hmm, i wonder if the child hood friend will have memory loss, long lost relative,  have secret love, ect ect.  The otaku gets enjoyment just by seeing a new mangaka's take on the same story line that is used for every manga/anime, and Jrpg released today.  Its boring and they are putting themselves in a corner.   We sometimes think of japan as a friendly place for the anime nerd, but that really isnt the case. 
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« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2011, 01:32:12 AM »

The Japanese story lines are being used over and over again because that is what their otaku audience wants.  I look at it and see the same thing again and again.  The otaku sees it and thinks, hmm, i wonder if the child hood friend will have memory loss, long lost relative,  have secret love, ect ect.  The otaku gets enjoyment just by seeing a new mangaka's take on the same story line that is used for every manga/anime, and Jrpg released today.  Its boring and they are putting themselves in a corner.   We sometimes think of japan as a friendly place for the anime nerd, but that really isnt the case. 

I guess you felt like you weren't enough of a troll the first time around so you had to outdo yourself.
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Eusis
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« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2011, 01:46:50 AM »

Games going for samey stories really isn't a Japan only thing. There is some stupid pandering on their part, yes, but you also get some female characters here being more sexed up even if they weren't originally, or sticking with safe, familiar bald (or now faux hawk) space marine-type characters for the leads. As frustrating as samey JRPGs can get it's hardly an exclusive problem.
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howitis
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« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2011, 02:42:50 AM »

Games going for samey stories really isn't a Japan only thing. There is some stupid pandering on their part, yes, but you also get some female characters here being more sexed up even if they weren't originally, or sticking with safe, familiar bald (or now faux hawk) space marine-type characters for the leads. As frustrating as samey JRPGs can get it's hardly an exclusive problem.

i have no problem with  save the world story lines.  i think the problem when the characters are the basically the same for every game and they are usually strangely overly cute, or overly large breasted, and cute.   
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Darklight
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« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2011, 02:49:40 AM »

Well, the basis for most video games is "Save the world" RPG or otherwise. Jrpg's are the same to me in 2011, as is wrpg's. There have been plenty of excellent jrpg's in the current gen consoles. The experience of ff7 will probably never repeat itself, But I think most people here played rpg's way before ff7. I mean it's only been a few years that jrpg's have been called anything other then rpg's. I still don't think rpg's have become hugely main stream (modern bioware/bethesda excluded), therefore otaku wouldn't count.

People who think it cool/fashionable to play jrpg's have zero influence imho
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Tomara
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« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2011, 03:21:46 AM »

i think we also have to keep in mind that in the late 80s and early nineties  anime wasn't about extra cute characters with big boobs chasing around a nerd.  Not that they didn't exist, but they slowly took over anime late 90s and beyond.  Early romance anime like maison ikkoku took realistic characters in funny situations.  It seems like the hits of the 80s and 90s were spammed endlessly by the japanese.  Oh my goddess/Love hina/tenchi/chobits, and a endless list on.   evangelion (sp?) spawned a number of confusing mecha anime.    Dragon ball Z spawned an endless amount of anime about fights and power ups spread over an entire season for one fight were nothing really happens.   

The Japanese story lines are being used over and over again because that is what their otaku audience wants.  I look at it and see the same thing again and again.  The otaku sees it and thinks, hmm, i wonder if the child hood friend will have memory loss, long lost relative,  have secret love, ect ect.  The otaku gets enjoyment just by seeing a new mangaka's take on the same story line that is used for every manga/anime, and Jrpg released today.  Its boring and they are putting themselves in a corner.   We sometimes think of japan as a friendly place for the anime nerd, but that really isnt the case. 

Dude, you need to read more manga, watch more anime and play more games. You haven't even touched the surface yet. It's like seeing some episodes of somewhat popular sitcoms about a stupid father, his attractive wife, three children and a dog, and concluding that every minute of American television is like that.

Read more manga. Watch more anime. Play more games.

For instance, some of the manga series I'm following right now are:
-Bunny Drop: a series about a thirthy-something girl who decides to adopt his grandfather's illegitimate daughter after the family has more or less decided to send her off to a orphanage. If you think this is some perverted story, you are a moron who's read otaku crap for way to long.
-Saturn Apartments: a slice-of-life series about window cleaners in space. Kind of. After ruining the planet, mankind decided to build a ring-system around it and move there. The story is about a guy who cleans the windows. Yeah, no weird moe shit there. Check it out at the SigIkki site and don't skip past the other series you see there.
-Kingyo Used Books: a manga about how awesome manga are. It's very sentimental, but it's basically about the joy of reading and sharing manga. Not a body pillow to be found.

You want anime? Try the noitamina series. Don't stick to the blocks reserved for adolescent males because that's where you'll find the fanservicy romantic sitcoms that were made to sell figurines with squishable boobies and bodypillows.

Games? Yeah, maybe you should stay away from Gust for a while. Pay some more attention to Atlus instead. There is a site attached to this forum and it has a review section. Go browse it or something.

In short: You're acting like a soccer mom. If you don't want otaku crap, don't golooking for otaku crap and complain that you can't see anything but otaku crap.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 01:11:25 PM by Tomara » Logged
Aeolus
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« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2011, 01:08:42 PM »

In short: You're acting like a soccer mom. If you don't want otaku crap, don't go otaku crap and complain that you can't see anything but otaku crap.


To be fair, it IS understandable why he would troll this topic. Its not the first time we've had this thread and it almost always goes to the same place. Besides you could change the word Otaku with Corporation and have a much more relevant question, even if the content will still be about a bunch of forum regulars going on yet another strawman hunt.
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« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2011, 01:14:20 PM »

Yeah, or a discussion about how and why certain trends such as moe made their way into games, that would be interesting too.
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Ashton
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« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2011, 05:02:56 AM »

It's less about otakus as it were, and more about companies pandering to the lowest common denominator. Among these are the various adherences to story and character cliches that they think are popular with their target audience and belief in what sells in the short term rather than looking at long term sustainability.

As an example, let's take Final Fantasy VI. The first half of the game was a focused and linear trek through a well-paced and coherent story. The second half consisted of non-linear forays into more personal stories and hidden characters, dungeons, and abilities. The story was well told and had a lot of subtlety for a video game, despite diving into melodrama every so often. Consider: players who took the time could discover hidden facts about the characters, such as Shadow being Relm's father or Sabin and Edgar's situation being placed on a coin toss. But this was all they could do. Shadow will never reunite with his daughter and Sabin never truly returns to Figaro. It givesthe players who explore the game information and allows them to draw their own conclusions from the situations. Is Edgar's place as king something he desired or are his charm, competence, and ability merely an obligation he had to uphold in honor of his father? The ending is also suitably melancholy, though hopeful. Sure you saved the world, but it's still destroyed, though life perseveres.

Contrast with Final Fantasy XIII, all the information is handed to the player on a silver platter. There is no subtlety, no grace in the presentation, only mouthpieces for the developers explaining the plot twists ("YOU WERE MISTAKEN ABOUT SERAHS FOCUS" "OMG IVE LOST THE WILL TO FIGHT"). There are no secret characters, no hidden sidequests or cutscenes to flesh out the crappy ass cardboard cutouts they call characters, no hidden dungeons or items, and the ending, as well as the cutscene before it where everyone screams OUR FOCUS IS TO MAKE THE IMPOSSIBLE POSSIBLE is some of the most embarrassing shit I've ever had the misfortune of hearing come out of my speakers.

It seems that JRPG developers think we get stupider with age or the pubescent crowd that Final Fantasy (and other JRPGs) panders to are stupider and less capable of cognitive function than the last one. I've been playing FF6 and aFF13 concurrently oh my GBa and PS3, and I'm consistently having fun with the former, whereas I have to drag my feet to get through even just one chapter. When Matsuno left Square, he took the last vestiges of dignity the company had with him. The company is now a bunch of morons who push out stupid crap to appease mouthbreathers who don't want to think or be engaged when playing games. I almost hate myself for saying this because honestly, I hate these new vs old arguments. But with the JRPG, I can only say that it's now even more of a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit than many western companies. Don't believe me? Look at FF12. Executive keddling took what could have been an instant classic and fucked it up beyond reason. Or hell, look at FF13-2. They couldn't make Lightning a deep or likable character, so they turned her into a Soul Calibu fanservice reject.
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