Author Topic: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over

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A.I.

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2011, 06:30:28 AM »

.... handhelds being great places for lower budget, less technically impressive titles that are hard to sell at console retail.


well if you compare the avarege price point for the new handhelds with pc games and current consoles....seems like the only low budget developement platforms will be iphone and ipad. I think the standarts have risen quite a bit....e.g. i don't think nintendo would allow anything like black sigil even near their 3ds.

CDFN

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2011, 07:20:20 AM »
What really intrigues me is the fact that PSP piracy isn't nearly as widespread in Japan as in the rest of the world. This, combined with the huge installed user base, makes it perfect for all these smaller companies that were reluctant to develop their games in HD. Not only can they keep using the PS2 era tech they're comfortable with, they don't have to worry about piracy. I don't think that the fact that the system is dead outside of Japan worries them, their primary concern is the domestic market.

The article agnoledges that things look a lot better on handhelds, the problem is that the handheld japanese developers are focusing on the most is dead in the West.
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Eusis

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2011, 02:50:36 PM »

.... handhelds being great places for lower budget, less technically impressive titles that are hard to sell at console retail.


well if you compare the avarege price point for the new handhelds with pc games and current consoles....seems like the only low budget developement platforms will be iphone and ipad. I think the standarts have risen quite a bit....e.g. i don't think nintendo would allow anything like black sigil even near their 3ds.

I should probably append that: For retail it's low budget, and overall it's in the middle. I think the idea of a greatly expanding gulf between indie and blockbuster with nothing to fill it is one of the least desirable things that could happen with the game industry, especially since the iPhone possibly goes to a dangerous extreme.

Maxximum

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2011, 03:11:24 PM »
A big part of the problem is that the modern gamer is lazy and impatient, while the bar for production value is set very high. The result is a wave of incredibly streamlined games with little depth and a ton of eye candy.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 03:14:55 PM by Maxximum »
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Farron

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2011, 03:53:14 PM »
Admin Edit: I need to read the rules of the forum regarding piracy and emulation!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 03:58:21 PM by KeeperX »

SquarePenix

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2011, 05:59:30 PM »
I REALLY hate the attitude of crying that a PSP/DS game is on a handheld rather than a console, especially given they're designed around portability or the DS's unique capabilities. If the small screen bugs you that badly then get a DSi XL and a PSP 2000/3000 with TV output, neither option is all that expensive now anyway. I understand if there's just one or two games you want, but if there's a TON then you're only doing yourself a disservice by ignoring handhelds, and frankly acting like that only exuberates the problem. Granted, an XBLA/PSN port might be easier to deal with than a retail release, BUT that's still more work for the publishers that they may not feasibly be able to do, especially on XBLA if they haven't gotten much published at retail, and sometimes those end up compromised anyway. Half Minute Hero just hit XBLA, but they completely ruined the extra modes by turning Evil Lord/Princess/Knight 30 from distinctive (albit short) gametypes to one level Hero 30-type stages.

Some of these games we're just lucky to get, it's better to roll with the punches and get them where you can. Also, they're right: getting the PS1 version of Tactics Ogre over the PSP version just so you don't have to play on the PSP would be a monumental mistake.

Why would you *NOT* want to see these RPGs on a console?  No portable game can match the experience.  I'd much rather sit in the comfort of my chair and stair at a hi-def big screen TV than squint for a handheld or hold it to my face, that includes the DSI XL.  I'd much rather listen to true stereo sound, or surround sound if its supported, than some tinny handheld speakers that require headphones for it to sound anything beyond monoaural.  I'd much rather hold a dedicated input device like a controller that's made specifically to conform for hand comfort and ease of button access than try and fumble with a handheld trying to find some semi-awkward way to hold the thing.  I'd much rather have easy internet access than a portable's unreliable wi-fi (or pay for 3G on Vita).

If portables are the only way we're going to get RPGs, then by all means I'll take it.  I'm just saying, given the option, unless you do a lot of traveling or don't own a TV (poor souls...), then people have every right to prefer console over handheld.

kdognumba1

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2011, 06:00:56 PM »
I REALLY hate the attitude of crying that a PSP/DS game is on a handheld rather than a console, especially given they're designed around portability or the DS's unique capabilities. If the small screen bugs you that badly then get a DSi XL and a PSP 2000/3000 with TV output, neither option is all that expensive now anyway. I understand if there's just one or two games you want, but if there's a TON then you're only doing yourself a disservice by ignoring handhelds, and frankly acting like that only exuberates the problem. Granted, an XBLA/PSN port might be easier to deal with than a retail release, BUT that's still more work for the publishers that they may not feasibly be able to do, especially on XBLA if they haven't gotten much published at retail, and sometimes those end up compromised anyway. Half Minute Hero just hit XBLA, but they completely ruined the extra modes by turning Evil Lord/Princess/Knight 30 from distinctive (albit short) gametypes to one level Hero 30-type stages.

Some of these games we're just lucky to get, it's better to roll with the punches and get them where you can. Also, they're right: getting the PS1 version of Tactics Ogre over the PSP version just so you don't have to play on the PSP would be a monumental mistake.

I'm not saying I have anything against the handhelds, I'm saying that they shouldn't limit the games to just 1 platform, especially when there are many other ways to getting them to people.  Sure PSP is big in Japan, but elsewhere (especially in NA) there isn't 1 system that's THE system to sell any and all games on (the way PS2 was last gen).  In Japan, developers have this obsession to get there games doing big numbers in the West.  One of the best ways to sell bigger numbers is to get your games to as many people as possible and not limiting them to 1 platform.  Not everybody owns a 360, not everybody owns a PS3, not everybody owns a PSP, not everybody owns a DS, not everybody owns a Wii, not everybody owns an iPhone, and not everybody owns a gaming quality PC (though most people own a PC good enough for a lot of games).  Why limit your game to just 1 group of consumers when you can put the games on 7 systems and potentially make 7 times the profit?  This is how games like CoD sell the way they do and have become as big as they have, they don't limit who can play them (not a CoD fan, just sayin).

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2011, 06:21:54 PM »
I REALLY hate the attitude of crying that a PSP/DS game is on a handheld rather than a console, especially given they're designed around portability or the DS's unique capabilities. If the small screen bugs you that badly then get a DSi XL and a PSP 2000/3000 with TV output, neither option is all that expensive now anyway. I understand if there's just one or two games you want, but if there's a TON then you're only doing yourself a disservice by ignoring handhelds, and frankly acting like that only exuberates the problem. Granted, an XBLA/PSN port might be easier to deal with than a retail release, BUT that's still more work for the publishers that they may not feasibly be able to do, especially on XBLA if they haven't gotten much published at retail, and sometimes those end up compromised anyway. Half Minute Hero just hit XBLA, but they completely ruined the extra modes by turning Evil Lord/Princess/Knight 30 from distinctive (albit short) gametypes to one level Hero 30-type stages.

Some of these games we're just lucky to get, it's better to roll with the punches and get them where you can. Also, they're right: getting the PS1 version of Tactics Ogre over the PSP version just so you don't have to play on the PSP would be a monumental mistake.

I'm not saying I have anything against the handhelds, I'm saying that they shouldn't limit the games to just 1 platform, especially when there are many other ways to getting them to people.  Sure PSP is big in Japan, but elsewhere (especially in NA) there isn't 1 system that's THE system to sell any and all games on (the way PS2 was last gen).  In Japan, developers have this obsession to get there games doing big numbers in the West.  One of the best ways to sell bigger numbers is to get your games to as many people as possible and not limiting them to 1 platform.  Not everybody owns a 360, not everybody owns a PS3, not everybody owns a PSP, not everybody owns a DS, not everybody owns a Wii, not everybody owns an iPhone, and not everybody owns a gaming quality PC (though most people own a PC good enough for a lot of games).  Why limit your game to just 1 group of consumers when you can put the games on 7 systems and potentially make 7 times the profit?  This is how games like CoD sell the way they do and have become as big as they have, they don't limit who can play them (not a CoD fan, just sayin).

Are you just ignoring everything that has been said previously? Do you think you can just take a PSP game and put it on the iphone, the wii and PC?
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Eusis

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2011, 06:36:47 PM »
Why would you *NOT* want to see these RPGs on a console?  No portable game can match the experience.

Well, for one the experiences AREN'T the same, and in some of those cases the big TV would make no difference or even be detrimental anyway. The Hero 30 part of Half Minute Hero really didn't feel very different from the PSP version and its biggest benefit (v-sync) probably could've been there in the first place, and I doubt Radiant Historia would be pleasant to look at on a large HDTV. That, and everyone's arrangement and preferences are different, if you tend to prefer playing with headphones anyway for example then the only real difference on handhelds are that the headphone jack may get in the way, and while the DS systems could stand be more ergonomic I think the PSP's fine to hold and the Vita will probably improve it so long as your way of holding it doesn't get in the way.

Quote
If portables are the only way we're going to get RPGs, then by all means I'll take it.  I'm just saying, given the option, unless you do a lot of traveling or don't own a TV (poor souls...), then people have every right to prefer console over handheld.

Annnd that I really don't mind. Well, ok, hearing pleading for something like Ys Seven to be ported to PS3 when news of its release comes out is still exasperating, but my big issue is with people who don't even try handhelds and blow them off entirely. I don't really mind as much if people are willing to roll with the punches or if they made a serious attempt and it wasn't for them (or the stuff on handhelds is unappealing anyway, whichever.)

I'm not saying I have anything against the handhelds, I'm saying that they shouldn't limit the games to just 1 platform, especially when there are many other ways to getting them to people.

I've already outlined how this is either detrimental or simply wishful thinking. The platform holders (and hell, I forgot to point out retailers) would get in the way of straight ports, some of these games are designed around a system's unique capabilities, and it's simply not something they can effortlessly do. It took years before bad PS3 ports were finally made a thing of the past (more or less), games that actually take up a lot of blu-ray space may not be able to be easily shrunk or cut up to run on a 360 like FFXIII and LA Noire were (or just be really annoying in the case of Star Ocean), and with Kinect/Move centric games you can't inherently throw one on the other or vice versa. And that's just with the HD twins where the technological gulf otherwise is so insignificant most games can be adapted to run perfectly or near-perfectly on the other system! The handhelds are even further apart, especially with the DS's additional touch screen, and as long as SCEA requires bundling on PSP remasters you're probably not going to see most of those jump off the platform here.

Are you just ignoring everything that has been said previously? Do you think you can just take a PSP game and put it on the iphone, the wii and PC?

The sad thing is those are probably the easiest systems to port those games to. Only the 3DS is left out there.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 07:13:18 PM by Eusis »

Alisha

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2011, 06:56:06 PM »
are that many people ignorant of the fact that you can play a psp game on a tv?

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SquarePenix

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2011, 07:08:41 PM »
are that many people ignorant of the fact that you can play a psp game on a tv?

I don't think the complaint is that they can't be played on a TV, but more that they're not designed for it.

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2011, 07:32:00 PM »
are that many people ignorant of the fact that you can play a psp game on a tv?

They should stay that way. Playing a PSP game on the TV isn't worth it.
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Draak

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2011, 08:00:18 PM »
Are you just ignoring everything that has been said previously? Do you think you can just take a PSP game and put it on the iphone, the wii and PC?

Seems like that's what Sony is planning with the Remaster series. Granted, these titles will have dual analog support and hi-res graphics, but the structure will be that of a portable game, usually meant to be played at short sessions. It does make sense remastering for the Vita, but not so much for the PS3.

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2011, 11:15:46 PM »
I think this whole thread has strayed off base.  The topic was about an article written about 1up.com and whther we thought the article had merit.  I think most people here undrestand development costs have skyrocketed.  I also think most people understand that JRPGs are driven by the Japanese market.  Handhelds, partocularly the PSP, are what's currently dominating Japan.  But the main theme of the article was that JRPGs are past their prime.  Everyone has differing opinions obviously, but as Eusis has repeatedly said, the PSP and DS have both been deluged with some really great games.  Companies like Xseed, NIS, Atlus, and Aksys to a lesser degree have provided a plethora of quality offerings.  And thanks to some extremely talented homebrew teams, we even get titles those companies missed.  There's already a fan translation for AAI2.  Hopefully VC3 will also get the same treatment.

I think a better theme for the article may have been the shift from console to portable.  And while I'm dissapointed obviously that that's where the industry seems to have headed, we still got a hell of a lot of great games out of it. 

If Sony didn't have to spend the first three years of its lifespan fighting the bluray vs HD-DVD battle and could have focused on the game end, the PS3 very well may have been the "clear cut" system of this generation that the PS2 was this generation.  But the future still looks bright to me.  Who honestly expected an English release of Catherine (even if it's not really an RPG)?  Hopefully the next gen will have a clear victor.  On the portable side, the 3DS has been a flat out disaster to this point.  Vita looks poised to take the top spot, and be the portable of choice.  On the console end, the Wii-U isn't exactly getting many people fired up.  Microsoft seems dead set on ramming Kinect down peoples' throats and will probably remain the least popular brand next gen as well.  I think Sony's next console, if they launch properly and focus on games from day one, has a real chance of being "THE" system again.  Only time will tell.  But RPGs aren't going anywhere.

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Re: 1UP: Why the Golden Age of JRPGs is Over
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2011, 11:22:41 PM »
are that many people ignorant of the fact that you can play a psp game on a tv?

They should stay that way. Playing a PSP game on the TV isn't worth it.

It's the only way I play my PSP games. It hurts my neck to stare at a handheld for too long. Plus, I just prefer the bigger screen. I think the games look and play just fine this way.
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