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Author Topic: Only 10% of all videogames sold are actually finished by gamers.  (Read 5783 times)
Mickeymac92
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« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2011, 11:44:33 AM »

Suprisingly, I'm over 10%. But just barely. I also doubt it'll ever be much higher than what it is.
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« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2011, 11:49:57 AM »

The reason niche games aren't doing so well in the states is because publishers don't want to put the money and time into advertising them.

Fact: Business has a lot more to do with ROI, budgets, and things of that nature than "wants."
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« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2011, 12:13:35 PM »

The reason niche games aren't doing so well in the states is because publishers don't want to put the money and time into advertising them.

Fact: Business has a lot more to do with ROI, budgets, and things of that nature than "wants."

Are you seriously gonna argue with me because my wording wasn't exactly perfect? It's obvious what i meant. I'm sorry if i didn't go into the exact details but i thought the word want got my point across just fine.
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« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2011, 12:23:34 PM »

The reason niche games aren't doing so well in the states is because publishers don't want to put the money and time into advertising them.

Fact: Business has a lot more to do with ROI, budgets, and things of that nature than "wants."

Are you seriously gonna argue with me because my wording wasn't exactly perfect? It's obvious what i meant. I'm sorry if i didn't go into the exact details but i thought the word want got my point across just fine.

I'm actually not trying to harp on word choice, I'm telling you I disagree with you.  Saying that a game will automatically do better if it's marketed more is a fallacy.  By definition, games are niche because they have a limited audience that they appeal to.  Marketing these games more won't do much - marketing for niche audiences is much more about using your money better - marketing in very specific ways or to those audiences through mediums that target those.  That's why PR is so much more important than marketing for these companies.

If marketing was everything, the HP Touchpad wouldn't be $99 right now, abandoned by HP after less than two months.  Non-iPad tablets are still a very niche market.  They shot for the moon and they failed.  There wasn't enough to it to sell that many copies.  The same goes for many niche titles.  Atlus does a great job at providing well thought-out PR and marketing for titles that will sell lots of copies (Demon's Souls) or just a few copies (101-in-1 Sports Megamix).  It's not about doing more marketing for everything - it's about making your marketing appropriate to the estimated sales of your title.  A game doesn't need to sell a million copies to be successful if it's got a low enough budget.  If your goal is to sell 30,000 copies, then there's no need to have television ads or billboards or other mass media advertising - a good PR campaign might be enough.
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Demon_Princess_Kay
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« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2011, 12:39:45 PM »

I'm not saying it will automatically do better, but the problem they aren't marketed at all. The fact also remains that some niche games shouldn't even be niche in the first place (No More Heroes for example it's violent has tons of crass humor and pop culture references if targeted to the right audience this game should've sold a hell of a lot more.) if they were exposed better they would sell better. On the other end of the spectrum we have Catherine a game that was clearly advertised right as it has been breaking sales records for Atlus. I know some niche games have clearly defined audiences, stuff like Ar Tonelico wont sell any better no matter how well you advertise it, but I'm not talking about just those games.  Also look at Final Fantasy if marketing and exposure had nothing to do with it then why is this series even still mainstream in America. Not every niche game has a clearly defined audience and if so you just have to find the right one. If a game isn't advertised at all it wont sell period. It's not everything sure but it certainly helps.
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« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2011, 12:46:39 PM »

I'm not saying it will automatically do better, but the problem they aren't marketed at all. The fact also remains that some niche games shouldn't even be niche in the first place (No More Heroes for example it's violent has tons of crass humor and pop culture references if targeted to the right audience this game should've sold a hell of a lot more.) if they were exposed better they would sell better. On the other end of the spectrum we have Catherine a game that was clearly advertised right as it has been breaking sales records for Atlus. I know some niche games have clearly defined audiences, stuff like Ar Tonelico wont sell any better no matter how well you advertise it, but I'm not talking about just those games.  Also look at Final Fantasy if marketing and exposure had nothing to do with it then why is this series even still mainstream in America. Not every niche game has a clearly defined audience and if so you just have to find the right one. If a game isn't advertised at all it wont sell period. It's not everything sure but it certainly helps.

You're ignoring ROI, though.  Catherine was projected to sell many more copies than what Atlus usually does.  It got a bigger budget from the suits because of that.  Did it sell better because of its marketing?  Yes.  Would Innocent Sin get that same budget? Absolutely not.  Would Innocent Sin sell more if it had that budget?  Yes.  Would it sell better at a rate that was proportional to the budget being assigned to it?  Absolutely not.  Niche titles will have a lower ROI for marketing dollars than other titles.  That's why many of these titles don't have much in the way of classic advertising but focus on low- and no-cost PR efforts.  Because they're effective for these audiences and have better ROI.
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Demon_Princess_Kay
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« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2011, 01:11:00 PM »

I'm not ignoring anything I'm just saying a lot of these games aren't marketed correctly or at all. Shadows of the Damned (and pretty much every other Suda51 game) was just shoved on shelves and EA expected it to sell that way. If you want to sell anything you have to expose it to the target audience first, and a lot of these games aren't even getting that. That's what I'm getting nothing more nothing less. I have no complaints with the way Atlus does things and i dont expect them to do any better, my complaints lie with the people who just shove good games onto shelves without even telling their customers they exist.
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« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2011, 01:19:03 PM »

I'm not ignoring anything I'm just saying a lot of these games aren't marketed correctly or at all. Shadows of the Damned (and pretty much every other Suda51 game) was just shoved on shelves and EA expected it to sell that way. If you want to sell anything you have to expose it to the target audience first, and a lot of these games aren't even getting that. That's what I'm getting nothing more nothing less. I have no complaints with the way Atlus does things and i dont expect them to do any better, my complaints lie with the people who just shove good games onto shelves without even telling their customers they exist.

It's very easy for us as consumers to say this, but without any background on the business end of things it's very hard to make accurate predictions. These companies employ a lot of people to do research on these things and if a particular game doesn't get marketed a certain way, there's probably good reason. ROI is probably a very big one because it's easy to look at sales numbers and assume it did well, but we don't see the actual initial investment into these games so we really don't know how those sales numbers translate into actual profit.
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« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2011, 02:17:23 PM »

You dont need any background in business to know that if you just throw something on a shelf without telling people about it that it won't sell.
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AJR
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« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2011, 02:30:39 PM »

I'm not ignoring anything I'm just saying a lot of these games aren't marketed correctly or at all. Shadows of the Damned (and pretty much every other Suda51 game) was just shoved on shelves and EA expected it to sell that way.

I don't really know all the ins and outs of how the EA partners program works, but I've heard that they're fairly strict about how much money is spent on each project. As I understand it; Grasshopper worked on the game for a considerable amount of time, and there just wasn't much left in the budget to get the game the kind of promotion they wanted. I guess EA just wants to cut they're losses after sinking so much money into projects that didn't pay off.

I think they knew Shadows of the Damned wasn't going to be a big enough hit to make up for it's long development, so they concentrated on just getting the game out there.
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« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2011, 02:34:12 PM »

You dont need any background in business to know that if you just throw something on a shelf without telling people about it that it won't sell.

So, tell me.  How did you find out about Shadows of the Damned?  Was it through a media outlet?  Because, if so, with 99% certainty, that was due to a PR campaign.
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« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2011, 05:44:24 PM »

(No More Heroes for example it's violent has tons of crass humor and pop culture references if targeted to the right audience this game should've sold a hell of a lot more.)

I have to pop in to say that as a "mature" game on the Wii, NMH was automatically a niche game.  If they had released it on a different platform, that would have required a different control scheme, and they would have lost some of the fun and the silly humor, so it made sense to release it on Wii.  But it's definitely a niche game.
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« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2011, 09:48:00 PM »

I don't know about NMH being auto-niche for being on Wii... The Wii is all that anyone had back then.  I was working retail at the time, and we could not keep Wii's on the shelf.  Before that, I couldn't find 3 more Wiimotes on the shelf to complete my set.

But I guess most people bought Wiis for Wii Sports and New Super Mario.
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« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2011, 11:50:05 AM »

Gotta disagree with you there, Fei.  The 360 came out well before the Wii, and although the PS3 didn't sell super well initially (if I remember right), even it had been out for over a year when NMH hit the shelves.  By that point, the Wii was well established as a console with games for a younger and/or non-mainstream audience.  Yeah, it was still tough to get a Wii at that point, but plenty of people had other current-gen consoles.  Heck, I knew a bunch of people who went to buy a Wii, couldn't get one, and bought another console instead.
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« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2011, 11:51:24 AM »

Software sales are important to consider for consoles, as well.  While I don't have the numbers in front of me (or even remember where I got them), I recall the average Wii owner having something like 40% less software than the average 360 or PS3 owner.
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